We don't want to be stupid like you

[The Green Barbarian]

People are getting so wound up by this idea Big Brother is trying to indoctrinate their children when this just isn’t the case.

So then you are saying that a little consultation and education for parents is a good thing. Glad we could find some common ground here.

This is fear-mongering, and I’m not sure why you’re buying into it.

Ok, I really hope that you can refrain from hyperbole and superciliousness and rationally explain this statement...

I can see that there are going to be some parents who have a lot to lose (at least in their perception) if their children learn that the last residential school didn’t close three hundred years ago, or that people don’t choose to be homosexual or have gender identity issues but are born that way.

Never mind...should have known better...

Tolerance of the entire range of differences comes with knowledge of the entire range of differences, and this is what scares some people – that their children might end up knowing more than them and not buy into their *bleep* anymore. In my opinion, no real decent parent having the best interests of their child in mind would ever oppose them having the best, most accurate and most relevant education available.

and perhaps instead of just jamming this "accurate and most relevant education" as you call it down their throats, they could be included in the process, so that they fully understand what this "tolerance" you speak of exactly is. As for "not buying into their bleep anymore", that's a two-way street. Assuming that what parents believe and are teaching their kids is "bleep" is exactly the elitism that makes people want to walk away. There are middle grounds, and there should be consultation.

[oneh2obabe]

5 Myths And Facts About Ontario's Updated Sex Education Curriculum

As to the second point, having no say, a) this curriculum is being implemented by the Ontario Ministry of Education, a Ministry of the democratically elected Government of Ontario; and b) the process of creating this curriculum included consultation with 4,000 chairs of parent councils (i.e. parents who were democratically elected to chair parent councils in each of 4,000 schools across Ontario).

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/karyn-pic ... 46012.html

[rustled]

Once upon a time, long ago, the people in charge of things in Canada believed certain children's parents could not prepare them for a successful life in the modern world. So they said, "In our institutions, we will show these children the proper beliefs, which are our beliefs." And the children learned to be ashamed of what their parents believed.

Then the people of Canada said, "What our forefathers did to these children, causing them to be ashamed and uncomfortable within their own families, was wrong." Within a few years, some people in Canada and around the world said it was a terrible wrong which had done irreparable harm, and everyone should work very hard toward reconciliation.

Meanwhile, the people now in charge of things in Canada believed certain children's parents could not prepare them for a successful life in the modern world. So they said, "In our institutions, we will show these children the proper beliefs, which are our beliefs." And the children learned to be ashamed of what their parents believed.

Then some people of Canada said, "Are we doing the right thing?"

And they were told, "Of course we are! We know what is right, and we must show the children the way."

And the people who thought there may still be something not right about teachings that make children uncomfortable in their own families asked, "Should the parents not be included in a discussion about this?"

And they were told: "We don't want the children to be stupid like you."

And the people of Canada marveled at the hubris and the arrogance of those who presume the parents of these children have a corner on stupidity.

[rustled]

5 Myths And Facts About Ontario's Updated Sex Education Curriculum

As to the second point, having no say, a) this curriculum is being implemented by the Ontario Ministry of Education, a Ministry of the democratically elected Government of Ontario; and b) the process of creating this curriculum included consultation with 4,000 chairs of parent councils (i.e. parents who were democratically elected to chair parent councils in each of 4,000 schools across Ontario).

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/karyn-pic ... 46012.html

That would be reassuring to anyone with no experience with parent councils.

[Ka-El]

Once upon a time (just yesterday?) some people believed all parents were perfectly functioning and knowledgeable adults who could all raise their children to be successful and safe in this complicated new world, and when it turned out that was just not the case, instead of acknowledging there was something we could have done about it before the fact, they just blamed those same parents for failing their children. Now, scared of the idea children might learn some accurate information that conflicts with the *bleep* they’ve been trying to get them to believe, they cry out “You’re trying to indoctrinate our children by teaching them facts! How dare you?” “What if we don’t want our children to know the last residential school didn’t close three hundred years ago?” “What if we don’t want our children to know homosexuality isn’t just a bad choice?” “What if we don’t want our children to know the earth isn’t flat” We want to reserve the right to raise our children as ignorant as we decide to!

People are getting so wound up by this idea Big Brother is trying to indoctrinate their children when this just isn’t the case.

[The Green Barbarian]

That would be reassuring to anyone with no experience with parent councils.

That's just awesome, and so true!!!

[normaM]

Repeating things doesn't make one right. No one here has said we are panicked, no one here has said Education is a bad thing ( altho I could quote Mark Twain)
R said what I feel. Did the parents go and demand this be taught? btw, since sex ed classes are nothing new I'm sure someone can step up to the podium and explain teen pregnancies, STIs still be spread, blah blah.

[The Green Barbarian]

Once upon a time (just yesterday?) some people believed all parents were perfectly functioning and knowledgeable adults who could all raise their children to be successful and safe in this complicated new world,

Not sure anyone thinks that parents are perfectly functioning. And I'm not sure what's so new about this world.

Now, scared of the idea children might learn some accurate information that conflicts with the *bleep* they’ve been trying to get them to believe, they cry out “You’re trying to indoctrinate our children by teaching them facts! How dare you?” “What if we don’t want our children to know the last residential school didn’t close three hundred years ago?” “What if we don’t want our children to know homosexuality isn’t just a bad choice?” “What if we don’t want our children to know the earth isn’t flat”.

You keep trying to sell this blarney. It appears that you are very passionate about this subject, to the point of completely misrepresenting the reality of this situation. I don't see too many people really supporting your position, when you keep parroting nonsense about schools closing down 300 years ago. 300 years ago Canada didn't exist. I hope that somewhere in the curriculum they are teaching kids this. But who knows.

We want to reserve the right to raise our children as ignorant as we decide to!]

And we saw this demonstrated by parents who were "supportive" of their kids walking out of schools protesting the fact that the Ontario government is consulting with parents about the curriculum. Talk about ignorance!

[The Green Barbarian]

btw, since sex ed classes are nothing new I'm sure someone can step up to the podium and explain teen pregnancies, STIs still be spread, blah blah.

watch ten minutes of most shows on TLC. People are just stupid. No matter if at five years old they are taught about sexting.

[normaM]

Twas the condom on the banana started all the confusion. I actually was involved with developing and providing sex ed ( girls only)
Of course I still find the dental dam at the dentist disturbing. :/

[rustled]

Once upon a time (just yesterday?) some people believed all parents were perfectly functioning and knowledgeable adults who could all raise their children to be successful and safe in this complicated new world, and when it turned out that was just not the case, instead of acknowledging there was something we could have done about it before the fact, they just blamed those same parents for failing their children. Now, scared of the idea children might learn some accurate information that conflicts with the *bleep* they’ve been trying to get them to believe, they cry out “You’re trying to indoctrinate our children by teaching them facts! How dare you?” “What if we don’t want our children to know the last residential school didn’t close three hundred years ago?” “What if we don’t want our children to know homosexuality isn’t just a bad choice?” “What if we don’t want our children to know the earth isn’t flat” We want to reserve the right to raise our children as ignorant as we decide to!

People are getting so wound up by this idea Big Brother is trying to indoctrinate their children when this just isn’t the case.

And the people of Canada marveled at the hubris and the arrogance of those who presume the parents of these children have a corner on stupidity and fear-mongering.

[The Green Barbarian]

Once upon a time, long ago, the people in charge of things in Canada believed certain children's parents could not prepare them for a successful life in the modern world. So they said, "In our institutions, we will show these children the proper beliefs, which are our beliefs." And the children learned to be ashamed of what their parents believed.

Then the people of Canada said, "What our forefathers did to these children, causing them to be ashamed and uncomfortable within their own families, was wrong." Within a few years, some people in Canada and around the world said it was a terrible wrong which had done irreparable harm, and everyone should work very hard toward reconciliation.

Meanwhile, the people now in charge of things in Canada believed certain children's parents could not prepare them for a successful life in the modern world. So they said, "In our institutions, we will show these children the proper beliefs, which are our beliefs." And the children learned to be ashamed of what their parents believed.

Then some people of Canada said, "Are we doing the right thing?"

And they were told, "Of course we are! We know what is right, and we must show the children the way."

And the people who thought there may still be something not right about teachings that make children uncomfortable in their own families asked, "Should the parents not be included in a discussion about this?"

And they were told: "We don't want the children to be stupid like you."

And the people of Canada marveled at the hubris and the arrogance of those who presume the parents of these children have a corner on stupidity.

and then the people in charge of things said "you want your kids to believe that all residential schools were closed down 300 years ago" and the parents said "yes, and we shouldn't have done that, sorry. How are you going to fix this problem?" and the people in charge said "by giving your five year old a cell phone and teaching them about sexting". And the parents headed straight for the ballot box and elected Doug Ford.

[Ka-El]

..., when you keep parroting nonsense about schools closing down 300 years ago. 300 years ago Canada didn't exist. I hope that somewhere in the curriculum they are teaching kids this. But who knows.

Some of the facts concerning the history of our indigenous peoples is one of the things they want to teach, and what Doug Ford has removed from the curriculum. One would hope that people were getting taught this somewhere along the line, but based on some of the comments in other threads on these boards some folk obviously missed that class if they did.

[rustled]

..., when you keep parroting nonsense about schools closing down 300 years ago. 300 years ago Canada didn't exist. I hope that somewhere in the curriculum they are teaching kids this. But who knows.

Some of the facts concerning the history of our indigenous peoples is one of the things they want to teach, and what Doug Ford has removed from the curriculum. One would hope that people were getting taught this somewhere along the line, but based on some of the comments in other threads on these boards some folk obviously missed that class if they did.

ETA: Had an interesting but very brief convo about with a former classmate at a school reunion this summer. She wondered why we didn't learn about residential schools and the effects of colonialism in high school. I mentioned "I Heard the Owl Call My Name" and the preposterous treatment of the Babine FN in "The Bears and I" and the surrounding discussions. She recalls absolutely none of it. This is why people swallow the tragedy porn dramatization of Chaney Wenjack's very sad story wholesale: not enough condom-on-banana in the facts.

[Ka-El]

*removed*