Tic toc . . . tic toc . . . Israel

[kompili]

Ha, Whatever you say Kissinger, those days are over.

.

Or are they.

[brounal]

It seems every religion has it nuts it fanatics. Muslims , Christians,Jews,etc.

Here is some interesting information.


"OCCUPATION" of the area popularly called the "west bank"
1,456 BC ISRAEL SOVEREIGN JEWISH NATION
1,060 BC ISRAEL &JUDEA SOVEREIGN JEWISH NATIONS
733 BC Assyria OCCUPIED Israel (northern part of "west bank" and Israel)
609 BC Babylon OCCUPIED Israel (National name "Israel," area name "Samaria")
587 BC Babylon OCCUPIED Israel and Judea (now called Israel and the "west bank")
539 BC Persia OCCUPIED Israel and Judea
333 BC Greece OCCUPIED Israel and Judea
312 BC Egypt OCCUPIED Israel and Judea
102 BC Rome OCCUPIED Israel and Judea
337 AD Byzantium OCCUPIED Israel and Judea
638 AD Muslims OCCUPIED Israel and Judea
975 AD Byzantium OCCUPIED Israel and Judea
1071 AD Turks OCCUPIED Israel and Judea
1099 AD Crusaders OCCUPIED Israel and Judea
1190 AD Muslims OCCUPIED Israel and Judea
1204 AD Crusaders OCCUPIED Israel and Judea
1263 AD Mamelukes OCCUPIED Israel and Judea
1453 AD Ottomans OCCUPIED Israel and Judea
1917 AD England OCCUPIED Israel and Judea
1920 AD Homeland for the Jews in Palestine mandated by League of Nations
1948 AD I ISRAELI INDEPENDENCE in Israel and Judea
1948 AD Jordan Attacked and drove out the Jews and OCCUPIED Israel and Judea
1967 AD ISRAEL CONTROLS ALL OF ISRAEL and JUDEA after 2,700 years of foreign occupation. BUT THEY GAVE CONTROL OF THE TEMPLE MOUNT TO MUSLIMS.
As you can see above the last sovereign nations in the area called "Palestine" were Judea and Israel. Since the "Israel and Judea were taken over, beginning in 733 BC, the area has been "occupied," When the Jews return and set up a nation in the same area, how can it be called an occupation?
Please look carefully at the occupiers. Please tell me when "Palestinians" became the natives of the area?

Who were the "Palestinians" in 1948?
Everyone living in the area (Jews, Christians and Muslims) were called "Palestinians" in 1948. However, the Arabs identified themselves with a larger Arab "nation" that existed in much of Africa and the Middle East, and at that time they preferred to be called "Arabs."

Many Arabs living in "Palestine" were born elsewhere, For example, the census of 1931 in the Jerusalem region included Muslims born in Albania, Algeria, Australia, Central America, Central Asiatic Territories, Cyprus, Egypt, Far Eastern Asia, France, Greece, Hejez-Nejd, Indian Continent, Iraq, Morocco, Persia (Iran), South America, Spain, Syria, Transjordan, Tripoli, Tunis, Turkey, UK, USA, USSR, Yemen, Other Arabian Territories, Other African Territories. (see From Time Immemorial, by Joan Peters, p. 227)

It is not surprising, then, that the United Nation's definition of "refugees" was changed from people forced to leave "permanent" or "habitual" homes, to persons who had been in "Palestine" for as little as two years. (see From Time Immemorial. by Joan Peters, p. 4)
Only in 1964, when the PLO was formed did Arabs choose to be called "Palestinians." In this way they made It seem that they were native to the area and that all of Palestine belonged to them. (Apparently they thought westerners were too uninformed and shallow to notice the switch. Were they right?)_"

Since there was a continuous Jewish presence in Judea and Samaria for some 3,500 years, when and how did this become Arab land?

And how can Jews returning to well-known Jewish towns such as Shilo and Hebron be called "settlers"? How can Jews living anywhere in this land that was their sovereign nation until it was occupied by foreign powers for 2,700 years be called "settlers"? The words "occupation" and "settlers" do not line up with the facts. When the wrong words are used, justice becomes impossible.

By the way, 80% of "Palestine" is already under Arab rule, while Arabs are only 55% of the population. Pundits and government officials think nothing of demanding that Jewish people uproot themselves and move out of areas they have inhabited for 3,500 years, turning their homes and businesses over to Arabs who already have more than their fair share of "Palestine:'

Yet were we to suggest that Arabs who don't want to live under Jewish rule, or who refuse to live peacefully in autonomous areas, uproot themselves and move to the 80% of "Palestine" that is already under Arab rule, we would be seen as wild-eyed radicals. Why is this? Please explain this to me? Terrorists are "terrorists" everywhere except Israel. And it's OK to uproot Jews, but not Arabs. How can we account for this? "

[sobrohusfat]

I guess these are jew haters also

I don't know? have they been launching missiles at jewish communities or moaning that not enough jews are dead as a result too? Nah, theyre just harmlessly and safely foolish in the U.S.A.

Ha, Whatever you say Kissinger, those days are over.

.

Or are they.

lol -Yes- Somehow i doubt that confused little american sect is about to "put Israel in it's place" anytime soon.

[kompili]

Not with the USA backing them

[peaceseeker]

peaceseeker wrote:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=16364&start=1245#p1374147

Wow HOLY CONSPIRACY THEORY BATMAN!

You actually believe the stuff you post here?
I hear there is a secret UFO base underneath Lake Okanagan! :dyinglaughing:

Wow, another person unfamiliar with the realities of the attack on the USS Liberty? Not surprising, the voices of the survivors are rarely heard.

brounal, the attack happened. The fighter jets used in the attack were unmarked and flown by Israeli pilots. The USS Liberty was identifiable and, contrary to Israel's claims, the American flag/hull markings were clearly visible...see here and here.

Fifteen years after the attack, an Israeli pilot approached Liberty survivors and then held extensive interviews with former Congressman Paul N. (Pete) McCloskey about his role. According to this senior Israeli lead pilot, he recognized the Liberty as American immediately, so informed his headquarters, and was told to ignore the American flag and continue his attack. He refused to do so and returned to base, where he was arrested.

Later, a dual-citizen Israeli major told survivors that he was in an Israeli war room where he heard that pilot's radio report. The attacking pilots and everyone in the Israeli war room knew that they were attacking an American ship, the major said. He recanted the statement only after he received threatening phone calls from Israel.

The pilot's protests also were heard by radio monitors in the U.S. Embassy in Lebanon. Then-U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon Dwight Porter has confirmed this. Porter told his story to syndicated columnists Rowland Evans and Robert Novak and offered to submit to further questioning by authorities. Unfortunately, no one in the U.S. government has any interest in hearing these first-person accounts of Israeli treachery.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICL ... berty.html

USS Liberty Veterans Association
http://www.usslibertyveterans.org/

[unclemarty]

Don't you already have a thread on that topic? Can you please post a link to it instead of cluttering up this one.

Thanks.

[kompili]

Honorable #Jews protest #Zionist violence against #Palestine in #Jerusalem. STOP THE MASSACRE OF INNOCENTS IN #GAZA!!!!
Here are real Jews, the ones we admire

[unclemarty]

The Idiocy of Gaza Withdrawal Advocates is Now Exposed
November 22, 2012 - Arutz Sheva
Rabbi Eliezer Melamed

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We told you so!
As a result of the Oslo Accords, we said they would attack us from any place we withdrew from.

We said that missiles would be fired on Ashkelon from Gaza, and all the leftist, delusionary peace seekers, claimed that we were terrifying the public – and now, ‘Gush Dan’ (greater Tel Aviv) is under fire.

We warned that retreating from Gush Katif would strengthen our enemies, but government and security officials responded arrogantly that, on the contrary – withdrawal would increase security.

We warned that abandoning the ‘Philadelphia Corridor’ at the Egypt-Gaza border would lead to the flow of weapons and missiles into the Gaza Strip, and they said there were agreements with the Palestinians and Egyptians that nothing would trickle in from Sinai to Gaza. And lo and behold, for years, a constant supply of missiles and other weapons have streamed into Gaza through Sinai.

We said that retreating would bring Hamas to power, and they argued – on the contrary, it would strengthen the P.L.O.
We said that if, after the withdrawal, we have to fight them, it would be much more difficult; we would have to fight in urban areas, and our situation in the eyes of the world would be much more problematic. They argued the exact opposite – if after retreat the Arabs open fire on us, we will be able to strike them relentlessly.

We asked: “But they will shoot missiles from civilian homes?” They answered, condescendingly: “First of all, they don’t have missiles. Secondly, if they do fire a missile, we’ll destroy the houses from which they are fired.” And now, when they constantly fire missiles, it turns out that from the world’s perspective, there is absolutely no legitimization to bomb inhabited houses.

Israeli Media
If the mainstream Israeli media were honest, they would broadcast the taped recordings of all the leaders responsible for the Oslo Accords and the retreat from Gaza, so everyone could hear their foolish promises, and realize just how distorted their ability to correctly analyze the situation is.

If the media were honest, they would demand that all those who supported retreat apologize before the Israeli people for what they caused, and disappear from the public arena. Instead, the media invite them into the studio, allowing them to talk freely, as if nothing terrible was done on their part, and they still deserve to be considered “experts”.

No matter how much we criticize the Israeli media establishment, it will still fall short of the harsh criticism it truly deserves





Alienation from Their People and Heritage
The only explanation for this painful phenomenon is that the central figures in the media establishment are alienated from their people and heritage. True, they do not dare speak badly about IDF soldiers, or residents of the southern and central areas who are being attacked. But in their hearts, they embrace the “just” position of the enemy, hoping that if we accept the enemies’ claims that this land belongs to them, the Arabs will then be ready to accept Israel’s existence within the borders of the so-called Green Line.

Consequently, they believe there is no solution other than providing a “political horizon” for the Arabs, in other words – continued withdrawals. Any opposing position, relying on our right to all of ‘Eretz Yisrael’ (Land of Israel), appears groundless to them, because they deny its moral foundation.

What drives them to Believe in Delusions of “Peace?”
It is generally believed that religious people are less realistic, because they rely more on their faith than on an objective analysis of reality, whereas people lacking faith are able to analyze a situation objectively, and as a result, their short-term assessments are more accurate.

Yet here we have a situation where precisely those who are faithful to Torah, the nation, and the land assess the situation accurately, whereas the unbelievers are mistaken in their delusions and false hopes – which repeatedly blow-up in all our faces.

The explanation for this is that they are no less religiously committed – to a form of idol worship. Their god is called ‘Peace Now’ or ‘human rights’. This is exactly the sin of idolatry – taking one value and worshipping it, without giving consideration to balance with other values.

In contrast, Jewish faith is careful to state that God is exalted above all definition, for He is beyond all values, and all of them are included within Him. God desired to grant merit to Israel, and gave them Torah and mitzvoth with the aim of teaching them to balance values. The leftists, who are alienated from their Jewish heritage, are searching for a god who will give hope and meaning to their lives. Many of them previously believed in communism, and embittered the lives of many people. Today, they believe in ‘Peace Now’, and bring all these troubles upon us.


A Gradual Awakening
Fortunately, a process of awakening is taking place among the public. Many people are already aware of the appalling bias of the leftist “experts” and the media, and of their alienation to their people and homeland. Many understand that their “analytical interpretations” are merely a type of ‘entertainment’, whose connection to reality and logic is flimsy.

In order to advance this welcome process – although doing so has become boring and annoying – we must reiterate, over and over again, the guilt of the leftists. We must repeat “we told you so” over and over, and continue to spread the videos of their stupid remarks on the social networks.

Besheva and Arutz Sheva Readers
Some might ask: “What good is it writing such things in the national religious Besheva newspaper? Shouldn’t we try to get them published in other media outlets?”

It certainly is important to publish such articles for the wider public. However, it is more important to resolve and define issues among the right, because they are the ones who can bring about change. People aware of the appalling situation of leftist “experts” and the media establishment, can lead the necessary change. If they forcefully demand change in the media, justice system, and academic research, which has shamefully inclined to the left – in a gradual process, most of the people that support our position, will join in the call.


The Long-Term Solution
In the long-term, the only solution to the security situation is to restore Israeli control over the Gaza Strip. We must return to the situation we were in twenty years ago, but this time, with the clear conviction that this land belongs to the Jewish nation, we have returned to the land after two thousand years of exile, and we will never abandon it. Any Arab, who wants to treat us with dignity and respect, can live an honorable life. Anyone who wants to fight? We will fight him with all our might.

To achieve this, we need to strengthen Israeli consciousness significantly. It could be that even without proper strengthening, the security situation will force us to return to complete military control in the Gaza Strip, just as the army controls Judea and Samaria today. But even then, without a profound exploration of Israel’s destiny, there will never be quiet.

Currently Proposed Solutions
The problem is that in the present situation, the citizens of Israel lack the moral courage to restore our control of the Gaza Strip, and we are left with the question of how to deter the enemy from bombarding our cities for the time being.

In an attempt to offer a solution, we must first review the suggestions that have already been placed on the table.

Let’s return to the position of the leftist “sages” and the military leaders who lick their boots. Before the withdrawal from southern Lebanon and the Gaza Strip, they declared that if after retreating they continue to bombard us, we will set southern Lebanon on fire, bomb the Gaza Strip relentlessly, and the entire world will identify with us.

As we know – these words are meaningless. It doesn’t matter now whether their statements were said out of stupidity or willfully – in order to throw sand in the eyes of innocent Jews. In practice, had we listened to them, we would have paid an unbearably harsh price internationally.

Currently, the leftist “sages” advocated a halt to the operation in Gaza, and granting the Arabs a “political horizon” by returning to negotiations with Abbas. If this weren’t so sad, it would be funny.

How can negotiations with Abbas, who is hated by Hamas, curb the shelling from Gaza?! On the contrary! To show us who really is in control, they will shell us even more! And how could they possibly imagine that if another Palestinian state were established, in addition to the one they already have in Gaza, it would not fall into the hands of Hamas, who seek the destruction of the State of Israel? If we listen to them, the problems they have caused us so far will be Paradise compared to the hell that awaits us.

There are some defense-oriented people who suggest sending troops into the Gaza Strip, striking the terrorists, and then retreating. The problem is, the price we are liable to pay for this, in the life of soldiers, and international criticism, is not worth the damage done to the terrorists, which at best will result in a short-term deterrence.

A Change in Aerial Bombing Policy
We must announce that from now on, for every mortar shell they fire at us, we will destroy at least one house. For every primitive missile they fire, we will destroy five houses. For an advanced missile, ten.
The most plausible solution is to increase the bombardment from the air, in three directions: towards houses and property, towards the terrorist leaders, and towards the supply of arms.

We must announce that from now on, for every mortar shell they fire at us, we will destroy at least one house. For every primitive missile they fire, we will destroy five houses. For an advanced missile, ten houses. And for the most advanced missiles – dozens of houses. So they themselves can fulfill They can then fulfill the Arabic curse “your house should be destroyed”.

If they damage our economy by shutting down the south, they must suffer twice as much. To avoid harming their citizens, we will have to give advance notice of the time and place of the bombing, so they can flee.

Houses intended for destruction should, of course, start with the homes of terrorist leaders and their surrounding neighborhood – for our Sages said,“woe to the wicked, and woe to his neighbor.” To win this battle, such bombings might suffice. Of course, we will meet with hypocritical condemnation from the U.N., but not enough to cause long-term damage.

We will have to return to the policy of targeted killings. The problem with targeted killings began after the assassination of the mass murderer, Salah Shehadeh, about ten years ago. In that operation, fourteen other people were killed, including his family members and neighbors.

Afterwards,the left launched a publicity campaign in Israel and throughout the world against the IDF They demanded that the commanders responsible be brought to trial. They also petitioned the High Court. True, the judges did not dare harm the commanders themselves; but with shocking irresponsibility, they caused the defense establishment to change the procedures.

Since then, it is extremely difficult to strike at terrorists. They know that as long as they are in the presence of their family – their lives are guaranteed. If we don’t want to endanger the lives of our soldiers through land operations, it is necessary to announce that from now on, we will also assassinate terrorists in the company of their families. Indeed, we will attempt to strike only the terrorists, but the proximity of civilians will not prevent us from taking action against them.

In order for there to be no doubts about it, and for the deterrence of this policy to be complete, it is necessary to provide backing for this position through lawyers, to announce it publicly, and if need be, even to pass a law in the Knesset.

And most crucial, army intelligence invariably knows when weapons are smuggled into the Gaza Strip. Every such supply convoy must be shelled.

[lakevixen]

there is a truce ,and it could lead to longterm solution, so your hindsight means nothing now , funny how israel was talking with hamas

[unclemarty]

there is a truce...

Yes, and this time its all going to be different...Hillary's here.

[j watson]

Netanyahu and Israel may have made a mistake by not launching a ground invasion, a mistake that I think will eventually prove disasterous. However, I doubt they had much choice as Obama appears to have sold them out by forcing their hand and 'recommending' they accept cease fire terms. Netanyahu will still win the election in January, despite the fact that 70% of Israelis polled did not agree with the cease fire, simply because there's no one to challenge him. Hamas will re-arm and soon enough the same scenario will undoubtably unfold with all the same rhetoric, more killing and so on. I cannot imagine any peaceful solution, ever. All I see is an expansion of the players and further and increased bloodshed. Barring the second coming or some end of times event on December 21, of course. All IMHO.

[Passion4Truth]

A lot of people don't "support" hamas - they just don't agree with the position that Israel takes and acts out on.

If they stopped occupying land that is not in their right, hamas would have very little grounds to garner any support and would most definitly appear the aggressors. Israel needs to be put in their place by the united nations before any progress can be made.

:rate10:

[unclemarty]

anthonyderosatweet.jpg (26.22 KiB) Viewed 86 times

[Nebula]

:coffeecanuck:

[normaM]

Tony would probably enjoy that
Israel should keep kicking.. I'm Pro Israel can you tell? " Never again"