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28 killed at elementary school

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Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby jennylives » Jan 2nd, 2013, 9:19 pm

Seeing a handgun is much different than having somebody carry one in your school to shoot bad guys. My kids have shot guns and my daughter is not comfortable with any in her school. My son is too busy playing Lego to have an opinion though at this point.
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Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby RichardW » Jan 2nd, 2013, 9:38 pm

Captain Awesome wrote:Here's a difference between shooting a 20 round magazine and 2 10rounders:

Also talks about what is "assault" rifle and how the term is used incorrectly. And how pointless the law in discussion is.




Thanks for posting the video. And I agree completely that the changes to the law as indicated in the video would be rather pointless.

The whole 'magazine' thing is the bit that boggles my mind. However did it become so acceptable to have such a simple method of re-loading a gun so readily available to the masses? Personally, I'd prefer to see very strict control on the ownership of guns, based on needs rather than wants. But given where we're at now, I'd settle for only guns where bullets have to be separately loaded - perhaps the magazine is fixed to the gun and can take maybe four or six bullets max.
I can see that in certain circumstances, such as hunting, it would be necessary to have further rounds at the ready to quickly finish a job that didn't go quite right first time. One round at a time wouldn't cut it. But ten or more, that can be quickly changed?

To my (lacking in gun knowledge) mind, quick loading magazines are a significant part of the evil here. What say those who are more familiar with guns?
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Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby RichardW » Jan 2nd, 2013, 9:49 pm

And what I'm really asking is what, if any, are the insurmountable problems with my suggestion?

As an example, if it were declared that motor vehicles could still be built, sold and owned, but they couldn't have wheels, that would be an obvious insurmountable problem.

If we went to a world where bullets had to be loaded individually, yes that would spoil your fun a bit, but would there be an impractical consequence beyond that?
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Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby Captain Awesome » Jan 2nd, 2013, 10:23 pm

RichardW wrote:And what I'm really asking is what, if any, are the insurmountable problems with my suggestion?

If we went to a world where bullets had to be loaded individually, yes that would spoil your fun a bit, but would there be an impractical consequence beyond that?


Well, while this is a very out of the box idea and sounds like a very good compromise, it just wouldn't work. Technologically it would not be possible on current models of most semi auto rifles in questions and handguns, they are very closed systems. On some older bolt action rifles that's the way they load them by pulling out the bolt - but it's only a small minority of firearms. On one of my rifles with a permanently attached magazine that's the loading process - but even then I don't load them one at a time, I use stripper clips (piece of metal that holds them together) to load 5 at once (and you can load 10 at once for larger magazines not available in Canada).

Also, it doesn't address any problems with existing rifles that would have to be grandfathered and literally billions of magazines already in circulation.
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Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby SurplusElect » Jan 2nd, 2013, 10:52 pm

steven lloyd wrote:Actually, that's not quite true. I haven't used a modern automatic rifle, but the SMG I posted a link to "pulled" up to the right. In other words, you aimed low left and let it pull up to the right in bursts. Very effective in close confined spaces.


Well if that's the one thing you can find flaw with in the post, that's good. I didn't say it's impossible to hit anything, it's just highly inaccurate and not what full auto on "assault rifles" was meant for. They might be very effective in close combat but even then training dictates to conserve ammo by using semi-auto or single shot which means more of the enemy can be eliminated and less time wasted on re-loading.

Then again your not taking a assault rifle into close combat. You would take a personal defensive weapon like the UMP or Uzi which would be the only time fully auto would be a notable (lethal) advantage and what fully automatic (on personal weapons) was designed for. Those are highly illegal though - yet just as lethal as a AR-15 in "non-assault rifle" mode.

If Adam Lanza had "full auto" on his Bushmaster, half the rounds might have ended up in the wall instead of in kids (or horrible to think of but more rounds per kid meaning more reloading time), and then someone could have done something to stop him during his reload time. Yet the cry is that this Lanza didn't even have a "military rifle" and thus there is no need to look at banning that type of "sports equipment".

The fact remains that "semi auto" is as lethal as it gets, because it only takes one round to kill one person but it takes 10+ seconds to reload. You wont hear that from the NRA because then they couldn't sell their wannabe military weapons to the wannabes.
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Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby ferri » Jan 3rd, 2013, 8:40 pm

just a little food for thought... http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/340113

something that has bothered me since this story broke. they kept saying he used an assault rifle, then said it was found in the trunk. that link might just explain it.
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Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby grammafreddy » Jan 3rd, 2013, 8:47 pm

I'm still wondering about his girlfriend and her friend ...
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Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby ferri » Jan 3rd, 2013, 8:51 pm

http://www.kplu.org/post/police-make-co ... -dead-home

One of the officials said earlier Friday that a girlfriend of one of the Lanza brothers and another friend were missing in New Jersey. Subsequently, the third official said police had talked with the girlfriend. One of the friends had to be reached in California, so it took some time.
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Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby averagejoe » Jan 3rd, 2013, 11:56 pm

ferri wrote:http://www.kplu.org/post/police-make-contact-lanzas-missing-girlfriend-and-friend-mother-found-dead-home

One of the officials said earlier Friday that a girlfriend of one of the Lanza brothers and another friend were missing in New Jersey. Subsequently, the third official said police had talked with the girlfriend. One of the friends had to be reached in California, so it took some time.


I notice that the girlfriend and another friends names were never mentioned? Even when they thought they were dead? Is there names attached to these two?
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Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby averagejoe » Jan 3rd, 2013, 11:58 pm

From the article: Adam Lanza's mother, Nancy, was a teacher at the school, said the law enforcement official.

I thought I read that she isn't a teacher at Sandy Hook Elementary School?
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Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby Alvis » Jan 7th, 2013, 3:43 pm

After Trayvon Martin was shot, I don't recall the NRA (or any other gun toting right wingers) advocating for every black teenager to go out and get a gun for protection.
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Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby Glacier » Jan 7th, 2013, 4:03 pm

:127: Oh stop with the conspiracy theorist crap. They have never advocated for every white teenager to go out and get a gun either.
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Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby Alvis » Jan 7th, 2013, 5:46 pm

Glacier wrote::127: Oh stop with the conspiracy theorist crap. They have never advocated for every white teenager to go out and get a gun either.

No just for teachers to pack a gun. Where did I claim a conspiracy anyways?
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Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby grammafreddy » Jan 7th, 2013, 8:46 pm

Glacier wrote::127: Oh stop with the conspiracy theorist crap. They have never advocated for every white teenager to go out and get a gun either.

Alvis wrote:No just for teachers to pack a gun.


They aren't advocating for every teacher to pack a gun, either. Just for ones who felt comfortable doing it and for them to have proper gun safety and guard training, which they were willing to provide.
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Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby SurplusElect » Jan 8th, 2013, 12:39 pm

I wonder beyond the screeched debate about low crime figures and high murder rates, if the reason so many whacko shooting sprees take place in the US is more down to ideology; that guns are the decisive way to settle stuff when you’ve had too much. And legitimate morally too. As I’ve pointed out before, these mass killings are almost always angry lower-middle class white boys, the very people who buy into that kind of mythologizing.


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