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Does Crazy N. Koreans' Nuke Missile Threaten B.C.?

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Re: Does Crazy N. Koreans' Nuke Missile Threaten B.C.?

Postby brounal » Feb 3rd, 2013, 3:06 pm

A random nuclear weapon hitting us . Not very likely. Of course if one detonated at ground level in Kelowna it would cause fallout that would be dangerous but not as bad as you seem to think. The US and other countries did many many above ground tests till they were finally banned forget exactly when. Not that many people dropped dead immediately but not going to say it might not have contributed to some dying down the road for cancer and related radiation effects.

But fallout is pretty predictable it follows winds and can be predicted and warned and explained already if airburst weapons have next to no fallout and the fallout is generally only dangerous for few weeks. Not talking reactor melt downs here nuclear weapons are very different in the amount of lasting radiation. And if they shot one down and not sure if it would detonate then again not going to be much radiocative stuff to worry about and most of that would fall in one place not all over the province.
And of course if a nuke detonates at ground level here or airburst right near us we would have near total destruction of our city. Nukes are city destroyers after all.

The real danger is if North Korea keeps going and get 100 or more nuclear weapons with the means to deliver them.
Then they could seriously mess up the US.
And at this current time not really much if any way to knock down incoming nukes. There is no laser based space system that was never built.
And intercepting them from other missles is pretty hard to do still. The US in its stupidity decided not to build anti missle defence system . Russia and China have taken much more steps to protect their civilian populations because the real truth is that nuclear war is survivable. A fact that MAD doctrine or Mutally Assured Destruction never would admit. In proper shelter which can even be built in your back yard you can survive fallout in a nuclear war. You can not necessarily survive a direct strike unless you shelter is much more hardened.

North Korea is ruled by a pycho tyrant. People are arrested ,put in camps, they have basically no human rights, most of this is directly do to the attitudes of their power hungry corrupt leadership. The best thing we can do for North Korea is not to send them one shred of food but to airdrop rifles and hope the population overthrows the leaders. Sadly likely will never happen and sadly see a conventional war very possible at some time that might escalate to nuclear possibly on tactical nuke type level possibly higher level at some point in the future.

And yes did predict higher realt estate prices in the okanagan long term. And since not a realtor anymore still sticking to that opinion. LOL

And am predicting a not end well scenario at some point in time with North Korea. personally think US should just shock and awe their stupid asses! Worked pretty good in Iraq. With the military government in ruin think most North and South Koreans would reunite.

Quit blaming the US for most of the worlds problems. There are evil regimes in the world and while the US is hardly perfect I would greatly prefer living in the US or next to the US then living in Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, etc. And from knowing people from those countries that left them so would they.
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Re: Does Crazy N. Koreans' Nuke Missile Threaten B.C.?

Postby Thinktank » Feb 3rd, 2013, 4:07 pm

There are 224 nuclear power plants in the world and
We already got blasted by Fukushima's radiation. The good thing
about that, is we don't have to worry about it harming us, because
the mass media instantly began reporting on Jenna Talikova, the man who thinks
he's a woman, so there was no time to worry about Fukushima - making us all feel safer.

it worked out good. I wouldn't worry about N Korea.
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Re: Does Crazy N. Koreans' Nuke Missile Threaten B.C.?

Postby Spocky » Feb 4th, 2013, 6:14 am

brounal, I can't agree with your tenet that fallout is going to "fall in one place." This FEMA graphic showing potential nuclear strikes shows that airborne fallout can travel hundreds of miles away from the blast site:

Image

I do agree with you on the "not end well scenario" with NK, however. The leadership is increasingly desperate and they may be reaching the "nothing left to lose" stage.

Thinktank, we're about 11,000 km of ocean away from Fukushima. Should the NK nuke missile hit anywhere between Williams Lake and the border the prevailing winds could easily turn the entire Thompson Okanagan into an uninhabitable wasteland for months or years.

Fukushima radiation has been found at worrying levels over 200 km away,

Image

and an air blast similar to Hiroshima (a 15KT weapon which is supposedly the level of the upcoming NK test) could spread even more fallout than the reactor.

So yeah, I think that there is ample reason to keep a very close eye on what the NK nutsoids are planning!
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Re: Does Crazy N. Koreans' Nuke Missile Threaten B.C.?

Postby Quickmansam » Feb 6th, 2013, 12:28 am

Spocky wrote:Dude, when you say:

"No, in fact their leadership is some of the best statesmen we know of"

and

"And they are not eating themselves, and if they were then we should sell them food!"

in light of:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/01 ... 65100.html

Then, with all due respect, this conversation is over. You have let your rabid anti-Americanism taint your vision of reality and there's no point discussing this with you. Over and out.


I must agree with you, I did go a little far and would like to walk back the statement a little.
They are not some of the best statesmen, and I am heavy handed on America.
But that report you linked to, is less then credible ‘Yes, I saw the line that said it said it was credible.”

Without calling into question that report altogether, I would like to point out;
If famine in North Korea was so bad that a percentage of it’s people would take to cannibalism to survive – it’s social and political structure would be in extreme disarray. History shows us that when the general consensus fall into such a state, countries collapse.
Is one or two, maybe even a handful of people falling to cannibalism due to extreme famine in North Korea, possibly, but it is not the general public as some would like to believe.
Remember, this is being report by people with negative views of North Korea and thus tinted. Even if it came from people fleeing the country, they are fleeing it because they hate it, and thus are likely to spin horrendous events into horrendous conditions. And I’m not saying they’re out right lying, but you warp things to fit your vision, if I visited an American ghetto, I might come back and be like “Those Americans are so dirty and poor and the country is riddled with crime.” Without thinking, ‘it's a huge country and I visited the worst part’
News outlets are also likely to dramatize things, and when it comes to generally accepted ‘enemies’ of state’ widely blow things out of proportion.
That ‘article’ also never out right states that people are actually resorting to cannibalism(did you notice that?) it only extremely hints at it, but never says so. Of course, anyone reading it sees “North Koreans eating themselves”

I would also like to point out, again, that if you cared, this idea of blowing the place up and occupying (which always leads to improved humanitarian conditions*Extreme Sarcasms*) is far from a solution to the problem. As stated, we must act as a civilized community and provide aid and assistance. Any country in such a state that it’s own people would resort to cannibalism to survive, is in desperate need of our help, not the mighty hammer of our ‘Justice’
Please, instead of condemning their leaders for their lack of strength; we must acknowledge their shortcomings but help them, welcome them into a new era of cooperation with the World Community and in turn help the starving and end the cannibalism.


“For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.”


And also, I would like to say – if their leaders cannot provide food for the people, then that makes them bad leaders. And the question must be asked, ‘what can and should they do to provide this basic of life’s necessities?’
Should they reduce the army, and place civil development as top priority? Their army provides them their most jobs, and in turn is a vital part of their feeble economy.
Stop trying to build nukes? All their perceived enemies have nukes, they need something to ensure they won’t be invaded.
Open their borders to let foreign ‘investment’ flow in? Should they surrender to Western pressure and submit?

We must put ourselves in their shoes and understand, heavy is the head that wears the crown.

But still, I go back to my point, everything I said before is only reinforced by that ‘report’. Why do we continue to black-list North Korea? You think their leaders are evil? Can’t tell me why, but it’s enough to let their people suffer – the ones you’d want us to destroy the country to ‘save’.
It’s a double-edged blade there, you won’t help because of their leaders. However, you will destroy the country and kill millions in order to help… just, you know, without their evil, blood-sucking, child beating leaders.

And you’re right, their leaders kill thousands every day, spy on their people, detain people without reason or right, sponsor global terrorism, commit war crimes and crimes against humanity, run propaganda ‘news’ outlets that spew government lies,
Maintain a heavily armed ‘police’ force that carries out the governments whims without accountability, take billions from the poor to give to their few select elite, the same few that write every law and policy, they have control of nuclear warheads and have been known to use them on their enemies… You’re right, these are people to be wary of.

PS: If you didn’t get it, I wasn’t really talking about the North Koreans ☺


PSS: Sorry for the late reply, been busy as heck :purefury:
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Re: Does Crazy N. Koreans' Nuke Missile Threaten B.C.?

Postby Quickmansam » Feb 6th, 2013, 12:38 am

brounal wrote:


I must disagree. A nuclear weapon hitting Kelowna would end the city flat. The fallout (and blast) would destroy the entire Okanagan and would spread over that general area of BC. People would not drop dead immediately, but would suffer radiation poisoning quite quickly, and people in the lower mainland would also develop the illness. The environment would quickly collapse, beautiful British Columbia would be no more. A scare would engulf the entire province and Vancouver would likely crash. So, it would be similar to what I said before. Of course, I do agree that North Korea’s weapons are not that high tech or yielding, so it probably wouldn’t reach the states(too much) but they would still freak out none the less.

Radiation spreads far, as Spocky stated and showed. Even years after the blast, particles would remain, causing cancer and defects, and crippling the environment.
Nuclear fallout is very dangerous and is the main (if not only) reason nuclear warfare is feared so much to the point of causing the cold war. (If neither side had nukes, 99% sure they would have waged world war 3)
The fear from the blast alone would devastate both Canada and the US for years.

Again, I must disagree.
North Korea is not physically able to produce that many warheads (or near that many) and most certainly unable to produce a credible means to deliver them.
If North Korea was even thought to be producing a sizable armament of warheads capable of carrying Nuclear payloads, the US (and/or Russia, China) would act in a heartbeat to neutralize the problem.
There is indeed a lot that can be done to intercept missiles, as was shown by the recent flash up in the Middle-East, Israel clearly displayed how missiles are intercepted. That is about the same tech difference between North Korea and the US.
There does not need to be some laser cannon floating in space to hit something out of the air. We can seriously do that very easily.
And I would like to point out, that in case of a nuclear war, a bunker in your back yard is not going to help. MAD is fully accurate, in it’s statement that both(or all) governments involved would be completely destroyed and erased off the map, whether or not some people survived (by being far away from any targets) is a whole other story.


And again, this unfounded contempt towards their leaders bears no fruit. If you think arming one of the most heavily armed countries in the world is the solution, you are sadly mistaken. If there was any real revolutionary sentiment in North Korea, we would have seized it already (I would give examples, but really... come on) and overthrown the government years ago. Let us stay on the plain of logic here.

You think a war is possible? A nuclear one at that? North Korea does not have the will to attack, the only aggression would come from us. In which case nuclear retaliation is wholly justified on their part. We as a people cannot beat the war drums that lead to nothing but death, unless we truly are soulless.

You would send our troops to their death, kill millions of North Koreans, likely cause the nuking of south Korean and Japanese cities and in turn hundreds of millions of innocent lives, but the North Koreans are the blood-thirsty and heartless ones?


You clearly lean heavily in favor of the US. How did the war in Iraq work ‘pretty good’? Thousands of good American soldiers dead. Hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis dead. A country in ruins. A people divided. The current puppet government divided and ineffective. Death still rampant. War very evident. Hundreds of Billions of US dollars literally wasted in thin air. ‘pretty good’ what does this mean to you?

Quit blaming the US for the worlds problems? Evil regimes?
Lets focus on Korea here. Who created south Korea? Why are the Koreas divided in the first place? Why is North Korea so poor? Why do they hate the US and south Korea so much? Why do they need such a big army for? And nukes?
Why doesn’t any country work with them? Why are there sanctions on them?
Why can’t they put a satellite into space without more sanctions? Why are we having this discussion?
Quit blaming the US? That’s a joke right?

If one of you could explain why you feel their leaders are so evil, I will submit.
But you cannot. You say “Oh, they starve their people!” They are not farmers, nor have global influence, what do you want them to do? We can help, but you’d rather send them more guns.
You say “They keep their people down and give them no human rights” that is said about almost every non-western country in the world, so it has no fruit.
You say “ Power hungry, corrupt leadership” Again, said about every non-western country. Explain how they are ‘power hungry’ and ‘corrupt’. You know who was power hungry? Catherine of Russia.

You say my ‘Rabid Anti-Americanism’ taints my vision of reality? What does your ‘rabid’ anti-North Korean-ism do to yours? Perhaps, both together will paint an accurate picture, because if I’m anti-American, and your anti-North Korean, then together, we’re just normal. :bump: :skippingsheep:

I was going to throw in some quotes from the bible, but really, everything and anything from the bible would embellish my point. Can you say the same?
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Re: Does Crazy N. Koreans' Nuke Missile Threaten B.C.?

Postby Spocky » Feb 6th, 2013, 3:45 am

Your viewpoint is certainly unique. However, please comment on how any rational human being can respond to a government which issues this as an official release:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/02/05/north-korea-releases-rocket-launch-video-that-shows-a-new-york-like-city-in-flames/
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Re: Does Crazy N. Koreans' Nuke Missile Threaten B.C.?

Postby Quickmansam » Feb 6th, 2013, 12:27 pm

That is not okay. And I don't believe it should have been posted.

But I think you're making it out to be way more than it is.

Compared with many other things by many other 'official' networks in many other countries, and it is not really anything significant. Heck, just the last presidential election spewed a lot of things that were less then civil.

But you can't just grab one of two things and label the entire country as evil, if one of the political elite gets caught speeding, are you going to tell me that their leaders now have no respect for their own laws governing motor vehicles?

And it's not like Kim what's-his-name personally uploaded that video, or even knows about it, or anyone else in the political elite... What am I supposed to say about that video? That it shows a nation that is hell-bent on destroying America? really? Let's not.

That video should not have been posted through North Koreas' "official" youtube channel, but it is nothing crazy. And I seriously question if North Korea even has an 'official YouTube Channel'...

That is how a rational human being responses to that.
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Re: Does Crazy N. Koreans' Nuke Missile Threaten B.C.?

Postby Spocky » Feb 6th, 2013, 1:47 pm

You're an intelligent person and I respect that. But I am completely beside myself how you can be so totally blind to the outrageous violations of every imaginable human right which is the status quo in NK:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2085636/North-Koreans-face-labour-camps-upset-death-Kim-Jong-il.html#ixzz2K9bIp9Rh

'The authorities are handing down at least six months in a labour-training camp to anybody who didn’t participate in the organised gatherings during the mourning period, or who did participate but didn’t cry and didn't seem genuine.' It is unclear how many people face incarceration but the figure could be many thousands.

How can you defend this or for that matter anything else those despicable totalitarian dictators do in NK? It's completely unbelievable! Or are you going to fire back and tell me now that the Americans jail people for not voting for Obama?

The entire NK regime should be at The Hague! And that's all I have to say on that matter.
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Re: Does Crazy N. Koreans' Nuke Missile Threaten B.C.?

Postby Quailize » Feb 11th, 2013, 9:55 pm

North Koreans suspected of testing their bomb,,,Explosion was equal to that of a M5.1 earthquake.
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Re: Does Crazy N. Koreans' Nuke Missile Threaten B.C.?

Postby Spocky » Feb 12th, 2013, 4:00 am

Quailize wrote:North Koreans suspected of testing their bomb,,,Explosion was equal to that of a M5.1 earthquake.


Yup, and it's miniaturized, just the size (apparently) to fit onto one of their missiles.
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Re: Does Crazy N. Koreans' Nuke Missile Threaten B.C.?

Postby SurplusElect » Feb 12th, 2013, 9:39 am

Oh please.

China is more of a threat than the DPRK, and Stephen Harper is over there shaking hands and selling maple syrup.

Hype Hype Hype. Read a Pentagon threat assessment sometime you guys!
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Re: Does Crazy N. Koreans' Nuke Missile Threaten B.C.?

Postby Spocky » Feb 12th, 2013, 10:37 am

SurplusElect wrote:Oh please.

China is more of a threat than the DPRK, and Stephen Harper is over there shaking hands and selling maple syrup.

Hype Hype Hype. Read a Pentagon threat assessment sometime you guys!


I'm definitely not going to dispute that China is the biggest threat to the world as a whole since the USSR started shipping nukes to Castro. BUT, given today's news that even China has spanked NK for testing their nuke, it's clear that NK is the most unpredictable and outright looney tunes administration that is most likely to launch nuke missiles.

As for what we should do with China, don't get me started.
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Re: Does Crazy N. Koreans' Nuke Missile Threaten B.C.?

Postby Thinktank » Feb 12th, 2013, 3:52 pm

the biggest threat to the countries of the world that think they're going
to manage their own stuff the way they want to, is the warmongers of USA.

Of course the warmongers of USA got a whole bunch of other little warmonger helpers,
like Poland, who deserves credit for sending a few thousand fools to help do the dirty work,
and canada, who sends our own fools to afghanistan to help out, and Austrailia and Britain,
and all the other 'threats' to the world, who help blow up countries, so our billionaires can steal their resources.
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