Bernie Sanders

[Omnitheo]

That's not what any of the polls suggest.

Not how the elections seem to be going either

[JLives]

Seems Bernie's civil rights claims may be a bit far fetched.
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2016/02 ... vil-rights

Maybe he should have turned around.

[Atomoa]

Bernie did very well at the debate and is closing in on Hillary nationally.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/pre ... nationwide

Watching CNN was interesting last night as a full spectrum political panel talked about Hillary Clinton for 37 minutes straight and only mentioned Bernie Sanders for 20 seconds right before the debate started, in regards to the 5 year old car he drives. The money-system is rigged against Sanders and it continues to be one of his best traits. People who argue that what he proposes can't be accomplished forget that those old truths only hold up under the old Democratic and Republican parties framework. Parties that have been bought and paid for by the literal obstacles to Bernie's plans.

That debate last night was the first time in my life that I heard a American politician call out regime change and action-reaction type thinking. The Kissinger reference and shutting Hillary down about Obama was impressive.

[logicalview]

People who argue that what he proposes can't be accomplished forget that those old truths only hold up under the old Democratic and Republican parties framework. Parties that have been bought and paid for by the literal obstacles to Bernie's plans.

and yet whenever anyone asks to see proof that what Sanders is proposing will work they are always met with crickets. It seems that the tactic being used to avoid trying to explain the unexplainable is to just point fingers and demean anyone who dares question Bernie as being part of the "old framework" who is "bought and paid for" etc. Accuse and demean rather than explain. I can see why the Bern-ites use this tactic, as its worked for a lot of the same people in the man-made climate change argument. "Show us proof man-made climate change exists and we'll jump on board" Response from the warmists: "How dare you question us!!, instead of saying "here's the proof". Notice the similarities?

[Atomoa]

and yet whenever anyone asks to see proof that what Sanders is proposing will work they are always met with crickets.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-be ... proposals/

http://i.imgur.com/K68Vd1s.jpg

It's costed. Whether or not it can be accomplished is the issue you might want to raise.

Taxing corporate offshore income
Wall Street speculation tax
Remove payroll tax cap for earnings above $250,000
Closing carried interest loophole
Additional 0.2% Payroll Tax
Closing tax loopholes on estate taxes and artwork
Progressive estate tax on inheritances over $3.5 million; closes estate tax loopholes.
Ends tax breaks and subsidies for fossil fuel companies

And to pay for medical for all :

6.2 percent income-based health care premium paid by employers, a 2.2 percent income-based premium paid by households, progressive income tax rates, taxing capital gains and dividends the same as income from work, limiting tax deductions for the rich, adjusting the estate tax, and savings from health tax expenditures.

[logicalview]

It's costed.

Ah yes, the 2013 BC NDP talking point. "Its fully costed" was the parroted phrase from every NDP automaton. They had no idea what this meant, but they sure said it with conviction.

Whether or not it can be accomplished is the issue you might want to raise.

Actually, before we even go to whether it can be accomplished, I'd prefer someone start at the beginning and explain - what are these things?

Taxing corporate offshore income

How do you tax "corporate offshore income" once its offshore, and how would you even know how much to tax?

Wall Street speculation tax

What is this, and how does it work? No one here seems to understand it. They just like hearing that Wall Street is being taxed, and somehow don't seem to care about any consequences if it is taxed. Or how much is taken out. Just tax them. That's all that matters.

Remove payroll tax cap for earnings above $250,000

Ok fine. Get those rich people. They're so evil.

Closing carried interest loophole

What??? What the hell is "carried interest" and why is it a "loophole"? I know leftists love calling all tax policies they can't understand "loopholes", as this word appeals to the naive and the lazy. So what is it?

Additional 0.2% Payroll Tax

hurrah! More taxes!! Woo hoo!

Closing tax loopholes on estate taxes and artwork

What loopholes? What the hell are you talking about? More loophole jargon designed to appeal to the naive.

Progressive estate tax on inheritances over $3.5 million; closes estate tax loopholes.

Again with the stupid "loophole" word.

Ends tax breaks and subsidies for fossil fuel companies

Great. Who knows what these "tax breaks" and "subsidies" for "fossil fuel" companies are, as we've seen too many times, they usually consist of made-up numbers pulled out of some enviro-nut's rectum. As long as the playing field is leveled and all tax breaks and subsidies are also ended for loser technologies like wind power and solar panels, then fine.

[Urbane]

Interesting article here about how Bernie could defeat Hillary and still not win the nomination:

http://www.salon.com/2016/02/12/sign_of ... socialflow

Bernie Sanders thrashed Hillary Clinton in New Hampshire but they both ended up with about the same number of delegates there. Before that, in Iowa, it was essentially a draw but HRC came away with extra delegates. Why? It's very undemocratic but the so-called "super delegates" are the Democratic (ironic name) Party's way of allowing the party to ultimately decide who the nominee will be. It's not a system that appeals to me and I'm sure not one that appeals to Bernie Sanders either. More here:

http://www.vox.com/2016/2/12/10978302/w ... rdelegates

[maryjane48]

doesnt matter who it appeals to . bernie knows the rules .

[Atomoa]

It's very undemocratic but the so-called "super delegates" are the Democratic (ironic name) Party's way of allowing the party to ultimately decide who the nominee will be.

Not only that but news leaked today that very quietly 2 months ago the Democratic Party changed the rules and reversed a Obama administration rule that limited Super Pac and Lobbyist money from funding candidates. Hillary has got 29 million in Wall Street money. Right around the time Bernie started becoming a issue.

Hillary was up there last night talking about reigning in Wall Street and big money, in truth she's been courting it the whole time. The internet is fuming as the sell out runs deep. If there is even close to a tie and the super delegates pick Hillary the entire party would break apart and possible rioting or worse could occur. There is no way Bernie supporters can morally back Hillary now and it's become apparent that even the party needs to be saved from itself before it grows a combover.

Bernie has tied Hillary in Nevada and South Carolina is showing huge inroads. His appeal grows.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

http://usuncut.com/news/the-dnc-opens-t ... t-funding/

[maryjane48]

lol

[Urbane]

Bernie Sanders is right about one thing, i.e. the system is rigged. In this case the electoral system. Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders are seriously contending because people are fed up with the status quo. They see corruption in Washington, trillions of dollars wasted on foreign military adventures that have been counter-productive, and a country that needs fixing.

I'm not a Bernie Sanders fan but I do think that he's genuine. He believes in what he says. Whether or not one agrees with Sanders, there's something wrong when a candidate wins a primary 60% to 38% but receives the same number of delegates as the loser. The system is rigged. Period.

[Atomoa]

The system is rigged.Period.

You're bought and paid for and the ultra-elite get to select your ruler. That truth just fans the flames that heat Bernie's fires.

I really want to see Trump and Sanders go at it. The billionaire criminal vs the hippie from Vermont. Is America going to be turned into a reality-TV hot-dog-stand or grow as a nation?

[Urbane]

Democracy is rigged. You're not free at all, you're bought and paid for and the ultra-elite get to select your ruler. That truth just fans the flames that heat Bernie's fires.

I really want to see Trump and Sanders go at it. The billionaire criminal vs the hippie from Vermont. Is America going to be turned into a reality-TV hot-dog-stand or grow as a nation?

I wouldn't generalize about democracy being rigged the way you do but certainly the Democratic Party's primary process isn't all that democratic. As to the whole idea of the economy being rigged I would only say that those on the far left would seemingly be far happier if we were all poorer if it meant that the wealthy were no longer wealthy. Read what Andrew Coyne has had to say about poverty and look at the stats yourself. Your bleak picture is not accurate.

[Atomoa]

I wouldn't generalize about democracy being rigged the way you do but certainly the Democratic Party's primary process isn't all that democratic.

I've edited my post but consider that not only is the Democratic party rigged to the ruling class, but the entire opposing team is as well. Also consider that the election system in general is rigged (look into %age of spoiled ballots/hanging chads in black communities/Florida). Also consider the main routes of media and information the public see are controlled by the ruling class.

In terms of the argument that everyone is better off in general under our current system, that can only be tinkered with and not rehauled, the same thing could be said about slavery a few hundred years ago. There have been huge gains in efficiencies, technologies and production in our society and the wealth that has been created because of everyone's hard work is beyond historical count. That wealth has gone to a bare fraction of the population because of the above mentioned system rigging and built in inequality. All our lives should be much better - not just celebrating how a African now makes 3 dollars a day instead of 1.80 while at the same time cutting taxes on billionaires here at home as they slug away billions offshore, while simultaneously we are closing rural hospitals and schools.

If the view was so peachy I don't think Bernie (and Trump) would be so popular, which goes along the lines of the fed-up sentiment that I agree with you on.

[logicalview]

. The billionaire criminal vs the hippie from Vermont.

who is the billionaire "criminal" in this equation? Trump is a lot of things, most of them bad (just as Sanders is as well) but calling him a criminal just defeats all of your other blarney, and looks bad on you.