Another shooting rocks the world

[Jack DeBear]

#oneless

[Thinktank]

looks like Muslims never did it this time. Or most of the times.

[alanjh595]

Where's the link to your source? Just another meme I suspect.

[alanjh595]

Yup, I looked up the phoney web address at the bottom and get this.
https://www.cdc.gov/injury/fatal_injury_reports.html

CDC. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. CDC 24/7: Saving Lives. Protecting People. Search Form Controls

SEARCH
Search The CDC

Page Not Found
We are sorry, the page you are looking for was not found.

[Fancy]

Maybe here?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/ar ... m-ban.html

Kim Kardashian tweeted that chart over a year ago.

[Nedroj]

Usually one thing in common with these attacks.
AR weapons.
What does anyone need one of these for???
People fighting for the right to have any type of these weapons are just plain idiots, sorry.
Maybe it should be legal to have hand grenades, flame throwers, small missiles.

I'll probably get raked over the coals for saying this but all of you do realize that a Canadian citizen can legally purchase the same AR-15 tactical rifle most commonly used in mass shootings. All I need is a restricted arms license and I can legally own any amount of AR style rifles, Handguns, Sniper rifles etc. My brother is an antique military arms collector and has over 100 guns used throughout WW1/2. He is essentially the typical american. Yes they love their guns and have a somewhat unhealthy obsession with them but 99% of guns owners are 100% law-biding citizens. As far as gun control goes what works in Canada wont work in the USA and all of you Canadians that are saying otherwise are clueless as to what life is like in the USA. Down there in a lot of what looks like regular neighborhoods, people cant walk a few blocks to the store without possibly being robbed at gun point. In Canada the majority of homicides are committed by stabbing, not guns. Down there homicides are overwhelming committed by guns. So that's why almost everyone has a gun in order to protect themselves from criminals with guns.

The main reason why AR-15s are so widely used is because they are dirt cheap, customization are endless, .223 ammunition is cheap and its robustly built. So before you all demand a ban on AR-15's maybe look at the bigger picture to find the best solution. In the Florida shooting this guy clearly had some mental health issues but it could have been prevented not by a ban on guns but by the FBI, State/Local Police actually doing their job. If anyone is to blame for this tragedy other than the shooter himself, is lack of action taken by the police when there were multiple red flags raised by concerned citizens.

[Verum]

Jewish schools have armed guards, be they in California, France, or Israel. That's the price you pay for being Jewish. Ben Shapiro went to such a school.

Lots of schools around the world have armed guards. Also, lots (I suspect the vast majority) of Jewish schools don't have armed guards. I've visited a few. Armed guards may be a deterrent, but no guarantee that a massacre won't happen. Just look to Columbine for proof.

[Verum]

Where's the link to your source? Just another meme I suspect.

You see the way each "fact" has a number beside it, and there is a list of numbers below the table with the URLs of the sources. There are your sources.

[alanjh595]

Where's the link to your source? Just another meme I suspect.

You see the way each "fact" has a number beside it, and there is a list of numbers below the table with the URLs of the sources. There are your sources.

Did you try your theory? It still doesn't work from an image, and the website does not exist.

[Verum]

Usually one thing in common with these attacks.
AR weapons.
What does anyone need one of these for???
People fighting for the right to have any type of these weapons are just plain idiots, sorry.
Maybe it should be legal to have hand grenades, flame throwers, small missiles.

I'll probably get raked over the coals for saying this but all of you do realize that a Canadian citizen can legally purchase the same AR-15 tactical rifle most commonly used in mass shootings. All I need is a restricted arms license and I can legally own any amount of AR style rifles, Handguns, Sniper rifles etc. While it is lamentably easy for people to get access to these weapons here, the restrictions, even as minimal as ours are seem to have some effect. My brother is an antique military arms collector and has over 100 guns used throughout WW1/2. He is essentially the typical american. Actually, no he is not. The typical American doesn't own a gun. Most guns are owned by a relatively small number of people. US gun owning households typically own 8 guns (1), but there are just about 1.01 guns per person in the US (2). Fewer than half of US households own guns (1) and within a household, ownership is usually concentrated on a handful of the people (typically adults, typically male), so I would be surprised if more than 25% of Americans own a gun. Yes they love their guns and have a somewhat unhealthy obsession with them but 99% of guns owners are 100% law-biding citizens. No, the vast majority of people break the law from time to time. Almost nobody is a 100% law abiding citizen. Even still, the issue is not those who legally, and responsibly own and take care of their guns. The issue is that, as we all know, guns don't kill people, some people with guns do and there is the problem to solve. How do we make sure that the right "some people" don't get their hands on guns? If current systems don't work, and clearly they don't, what do we do? Doubling down on doing something proven to be ineffective is a very dumb thing. Think "war on drugs", and the like. Certain groups of people think that having guns makes them safer (statistically, it does the opposite) and so they fight to have immediate, unfettered access to weapons intended to kill humans. They want a system to prevent the wrong people getting guns without inconveniencing them, when 2 things are clear, the wrong people are often indistinguishable from the rest until it is too late, and the right people are far fewer than those would be owners would like to believe (lots of people are not good about storing their weapons safely and so they can't be stolen or accessed by others). As far as gun control goes what works in Canada wont work in the USA and all of you Canadians that are saying otherwise are clueless as to what life is like in the USA. Down there in a lot of what looks like regular neighborhoods, people cant walk a few blocks to the store without possibly being robbed at gun point. Largely due to extremely lax gun laws and high levels of criminality. American exceptionalism at its worst. In Canada the majority of homicides are committed by stabbing, not guns. Down there homicides are overwhelming committed by guns. So that's why almost everyone has a gun in order to protect themselves from criminals with guns. 1, no most don't have a gun, and 2, having a gun actually increases your risk of dying (3). It, statistically, doesn't make you safer.

The main reason why AR-15s are so widely used is because they are dirt cheap, customization are endless, .223 ammunition is cheap and its robustly built. So before you all demand a ban on AR-15's maybe look at the bigger picture to find the best solution. In the Florida shooting this guy clearly had some mental health issues but it could have been prevented not by a ban on guns but by the FBI, State/Local Police actually doing their job. If anyone is to blame for this tragedy other than the shooter himself, is lack of action taken by the police when there were multiple red flags raised by concerned citizens.

1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/10/21/the-average-gun-owner-now-owns-8-guns-double-what-it-used-to-be/?utm_term=.bd0743b935f3
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country
3. http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2015/01/good_guy_with_a_gun_myth_guns_increase_the_risk_of_homicide_accidents_suicide.html

Once again, I am not against gun ownership, just that guns be as well regulated as vehicles and such. Both are deadly weapons in the wrong hands, and useful tools in the right.

America gets so much so right, that it is unfortunate that they are unable to address this issue with a constructive and evidence based approach.

[Jack DeBear]

looks like Muslims never did it this time. Or most of the times.

Yes, Fancy, Thinktank,

Kim Kardashian posted it
http://twitter.com/KimKardashian/status ... 73/photo/1

Another link:

Todd R. Miller posted it
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/todd-r-m ... 21634.html

The reference links under the graphic:
1 http://securitydata.newamerica.net/extr ... ttacks.htm 404
2 http://www.snopes.com/toddlers-killed-a ... terrorists 404
3 http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/hazstats/res ... lities.ptf
4 http://wonder.cdc.gov/

But maybe most interesting link to explore:

5 http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/fatal ... ports.html

For example:

2016, United States Violence-Related Firearm Deaths and Rates per 100,000
All Races, Both Sexes, All Ages

Number of Deaths 37,863
Population 323,127,513
Crude Rate 11.72
Age-Adjusted Rate** 11.48


2016, United States Violence-Related Firearm Deaths and Rates per 100,000
Other Races (excluding White, Black, Hispanic, American Indian / Alaskan Native, and Asian / Pacific Islander)
Both Sexes, All Ages

Number of Deaths 1,023
Population 25,117,679
Crude Rate 4.07
Age-Adjusted Rate** 3.88

Reports for All Ages include those of unknown age.
* Rates based on 20 or fewer deaths may be unstable. Use with caution.
** Standard Population is 2000, all races, both sexes.
Produced by: National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, CDC
Data Source: NCHS Vital Statistics System for numbers of deaths. Bureau of Census for population estimates.

[Nedroj]

I'll probably get raked over the coals for saying this but all of you do realize that a Canadian citizen can legally purchase the same AR-15 tactical rifle most commonly used in mass shootings. All I need is a restricted arms license and I can legally own any amount of AR style rifles, Handguns, Sniper rifles etc. While it is lamentably easy for people to get access to these weapons here, the restrictions, even as minimal as ours are seem to have some effect. My brother is an antique military arms collector and has over 100 guns used throughout WW1/2. He is essentially the typical american. Actually, no he is not. The typical American doesn't own a gun. Most guns are owned by a relatively small number of people. US gun owning households typically own 8 guns (1), but there are just about 1.01 guns per person in the US (2). Fewer than half of US households own guns (1) and within a household, ownership is usually concentrated on a handful of the people (typically adults, typically male), so I would be surprised if more than 25% of Americans own a gun. Yes they love their guns and have a somewhat unhealthy obsession with them but 99% of guns owners are 100% law-biding citizens. No, the vast majority of people break the law from time to time. Almost nobody is a 100% law abiding citizen.

And you know this how? are you aware of all current gun laws in the USA? Do you have any sources to back this up? You are basically accusing gun owners of breaking the law and I know many many Americans that would call you out on this BS opinion.

79% of gun crimes are committed by someone that did not and could not legally own the gun used.
18% of perpetrators were legal gun owners
30% of guns used in crimes were stolen
40% of guns used in crimes were stolen but wasnt reported until after the crime took place
85% of legal gun dealers had ZERO guns used for criminal activity

Even still, the issue is not those who legally, and responsibly own and take care of their guns. The issue is that, as we all know, guns don't kill people, some people with guns do and there is the problem to solve. How do we make sure that the right "some people" don't get their hands on guns? If current systems don't work, and clearly they don't, what do we do? Doubling down on doing something proven to be ineffective is a very dumb thing. Think "war on drugs", and the like. Certain groups of people think that having guns makes them safer (statistically, it does the opposite) and so they fight to have immediate, unfettered access to weapons intended to kill humans. They want a system to prevent the wrong people getting guns without inconveniencing them, when 2 things are clear, the wrong people are often indistinguishable from the rest until it is too late, and the right people are far fewer than those would be owners would like to believe (lots of people are not good about storing their weapons safely and so they can't be stolen or accessed by others). As far as gun control goes what works in Canada wont work in the USA and all of you Canadians that are saying otherwise are clueless as to what life is like in the USA. Down there in a lot of what looks like regular neighborhoods, people cant walk a few blocks to the store without possibly being robbed at gun point. Largely due to extremely lax gun laws and high levels of criminality. American exceptionalism at its worst. In Canada the majority of homicides are committed by stabbing, not guns. Down there homicides are overwhelming committed by guns. So that's why almost everyone has a gun in order to protect themselves from criminals with guns. 1, no most don't have a gun, and 2, having a gun actually increases your risk of dying (3). It, statistically, doesn't make you safer.


Once again, I am not against gun ownership, just that guns be as well regulated as vehicles and such. Both are deadly weapons in the wrong hands, and useful tools in the right.

America gets so much so right, that it is unfortunate that they are unable to address this issue with a constructive and evidence based approach.

Dam I hate responding to your color coded replies.

2017 survey showed 42% of american house holds report having at LEAST 1 gun.
There are 88 guns per 100 USA residents.
32% of gun owners only own 1, 37% own 2-4 and 29% own 5+
2013 - Of the 35,594 gun related deaths 21,594 were suicides, 11,008 homicides and 1,200 (mass shootings, accidental and war casualties)
2/3 of all gun related murders are committed using a handgun. Only a small percentage of gun deaths are caused by any type of rifle.

studies done by pewter on American gun ownership:
"owning more than 40 guns is actually fairly common in the United States: there are an estimated 7.7 million super-owners, which might make it difficult to flag a mass shooter building an arsenal from enthusiastic collectors and gun enthusiasts piling up different kinds of guns for hunting different kinds of game, a selection of handguns for self-defense, and various accessories for the popular, customisable military-style rifles"

"Chicago has one of the strictest gun control laws in the country yet has more gun related murders than all other US cities."

"Many adults who don’t currently own a gun say they could see themselves owning one at some point. In fact, 52% of all non-gun owners – and 71% of those who have owned a gun in the past – say they could see themselves owning a gun in the future."

71% of gunshot victims had previous arrest records.
64% had been convicted of a crime.
Each had an average of 11 prior arrests. 1, 2
63% of victims had criminal histories and 73% of that group knew their assailant (twice as often as victims without criminal histories). 3
74% of homicides during the commission of a felony involve guns

Fact: One study 5of adult offenders living in Chicago or nearby determined that criminals obtain most of their guns through their social network and personal connections. Rarely is the proximate source either direct purchase from a gun store, or even theft. This agrees with other, broader studies of incarcerated felons.

Fact: Another city-wide study, 6 this one in Pittsburgh, showed that 80% of people illegally carrying guns were prohibited from possessing guns, and that a minimum of 30% of the guns were stolen.

Fact: Guns prevent an estimated 2.5 million crimes a year or 6,849 every day. 8 Most often, the gun is never fired and no blood (including the criminal’s) is shed.

Fact: Property crime rates are dropping (especially burglaries). The chart shows the legal handgun supply in America (mainly in civilian hands) relative to the property crime rate. 9

Fact: Every year 400,000 life-threatening violent crimes are prevented using firearms.

Fact: 60% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they knew the victim was armed. 40% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they thought the victim might be armed. 10

Fact: Felons report that they avoid entering houses where people are at home because they fear being shot. 11

Fact: 59% of the burglaries in Britain, which has tough gun control laws, are “hot burglaries” 12 which are burglaries committed while the home is occupied by the owner/renter. By contrast, the U.S., with more lenient gun control laws, has a “hot burglary” rate of only 13%. 13

Fact: Washington DC has essentially banned gun ownership since 1976 14 and has a murder rate of 56.9 per 100,000. Across the river in Arlington, Virginia, gun ownership is less restricted. There, the murder rate is just 1.6 per 100,000, less than three percent of the Washington, DC rate. 15

Fact: 26% of all retail businesses report keeping a gun on the premises for crime control. 16

Fact: In 1982, Kennesaw, GA passed a law requiring heads of households to keep at least one firearm in the house. The residential burglary rate dropped 89% the following year. 17

Fact: A survey of felons revealed the following: 18

74% of felons agreed that, “One reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot during the crime.”
57% of felons polled agreed, “Criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police.”


http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/?attachment_id=23027

[Bigjohn69]

Most of the guns in chicago come from a state with poor gun laws

[Verum]

...

And you know this how? are you aware of all current gun laws in the USA? Do you have any sources to back this up? You are basically accusing gun owners of breaking the law and I know many many Americans that would call you out on this BS opinion.

I know that most people break the law because life often involves breaking the law, even though we don't realise we are doing so:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/3044794/How-we-all-break-the-law-every-day.html

79% of gun crimes are committed by someone that did not and could not legally own the gun used.

So? They still got their hands on a gun. Maybe if it was harder to get one's hands on a gun and less incentive for doing so, they wouldn't be using them.

18% of perpetrators were legal gun owners
30% of guns used in crimes were stolen

Obviously those who are buying guns aren't doing enough to discourage gun theft. Maybe if they had them stored in a safer place this number would drop

40% of guns used in crimes were stolen but wasnt reported until after the crime took place

So gun owners aren't taking proper care of owning guns. Maybe more restrictions are needed to make sure that only responsible people can own guns.

85% of legal gun dealers had ZERO guns used for criminal activity

So? I'm sure the same can be said for people who legally sell cars, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't regulate cars.

...



Dam I hate responding to your color coded replies.

Hope this is better.

2017 survey showed 42% of american house holds report having at LEAST 1 gun.
There are 88 guns per 100 USA residents.
32% of gun owners only own 1, 37% own 2-4 and 29% own 5+

Yes, so the majority, if not vast majority of Americans don't own a gun. Therefore, the typical (median) American doesn't own a gun. For most Americans, not having access to a gun is not a problem, but those same people have to be prepared to survive in a weaponised society where criminals are far more likely to have guns. The few who desire ready access to guns with minimal restrictions are basically making it less safe for those who choose to not have a gun.

2013 - Of the 35,594 gun related deaths 21,594 were suicides, 11,008 homicides and 1,200 (mass shootings, accidental and war casualties)

Yes, most gun deaths are suicides and it is well known that ready access to guns increases likelihood of successfully committing suicide and ultimately total suicide deaths. While I support one's right to die, I prefer a slightly more refined process.

2/3 of all gun related murders are committed using a handgun. Only a small percentage of gun deaths are caused by any type of rifle.

Yes, handguns are a bigger problem than long guns.

studies done by pewter on American gun ownership:
"owning more than 40 guns is actually fairly common in the United States: there are an estimated 7.7 million super-owners, which might make it difficult to flag a mass shooter building an arsenal from enthusiastic collectors and gun enthusiasts piling up different kinds of guns for hunting different kinds of game, a selection of handguns for self-defense, and various accessories for the popular, customisable military-style rifles"

Further reinforcing my claim that most Americans don't own guns and that being a gun owner is not typical of Americans.

"Chicago has one of the strictest gun control laws in the country yet has more gun related murders than all other US cities."

Yes, trying to keep guns out of a place when it is trivial to bring guns into the place is hard. Chicago has a problem with guns not because of their own gun laws but because of other's gun laws, combined with some major social issues.

"Many adults who don’t currently own a gun say they could see themselves owning one at some point. In fact, 52% of all non-gun owners – and 71% of those who have owned a gun in the past – say they could see themselves owning a gun in the future."

So? I can see myself doing a lot in the future, but I don't think that laws should be shaped on what I might want to do someday. That would be absurd. If I could see myself owning slaves in the future, would that mean that laws should be passed so that I can do so?

71% of gunshot victims had previous arrest records.
64% had been convicted of a crime.

So? Are you saying that they deserved it? This is an irrelevant statistic. What about the rest?

Each had an average of 11 prior arrests. 1, 2
63% of victims had criminal histories and 73% of that group knew their assailant (twice as often as victims without criminal histories). 3
74% of homicides during the commission of a felony involve guns

Just more reasons to make it hard to get access to guns and to reduce the number in circulation.

Fact: One study 5of adult offenders living in Chicago or nearby determined that criminals obtain most of their guns through their social network and personal connections. Rarely is the proximate source either direct purchase from a gun store, or even theft. This agrees with other, broader studies of incarcerated felons.

Again, go after illegal guns first and then make it hard for would be criminals to replace their lost weapons.

Fact: Another city-wide study, 6 this one in Pittsburgh, showed that 80% of people illegally carrying guns were prohibited from possessing guns, and that a minimum of 30% of the guns were stolen.

Fact: Guns prevent an estimated 2.5 million crimes a year or 6,849 every day. 8 Most often, the gun is never fired and no blood (including the criminal’s) is shed.

Evidence from a neutral source? gunfacts.info is not such a source.

Fact: Property crime rates are dropping (especially burglaries). The chart shows the legal handgun supply in America (mainly in civilian hands) relative to the property crime rate. 9

Seriously, using a single issue special interest group site for your "facts" is absurd. The fact is, if one has to put the word "Fact" before a claim one is making, it sounds like one is writing for a 5th grade audience and not adults. Fact! This chart on gunfacts.info at best shows correlation, but what it doesn't show is that fewer and fewer households are owning guns. Yes, that is dropping. Maybe the actually causation is dropping levels of ownership rather than increasing numbers of guns. Simply put, you have used a completely worthless source (gunfact.info, even the name should have been enough of a clue) and all that does is reduce your credibility. I won't bother with the rest because it's just meaningless as it all just comes from a single issue site. It's like an anti-vaxxer citing an anti-vax source for their info. Personally, I think one should instead stick to non-partisan, non-biased sources interested in presenting an accurate picture, rather than one which cherry picks stats and "facts" to fit the picture it wants you to believe.

[Glacier]

Jewish schools have armed guards, be they in California, France, or Israel. That's the price you pay for being Jewish. Ben Shapiro went to such a school.

Lots of schools around the world have armed guards. Also, lots (I suspect the vast majority) of Jewish schools don't have armed guards. I've visited a few. Armed guards may be a deterrent, but no guarantee that a massacre won't happen. Just look to Columbine for proof.

Yes they did, and a good thing too: https://www.investors.com/politics/edit ... ved-lives/