Another shooting rocks the world

[Nedroj]

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I used 4 different sources to get the stats and facts. But you are correct most of the "Facts" came from one page. But its still much much better sources than what you have listed. One link to a UK study about how we break the law everyday? You still have not provided ANY stats or sources that back up your opinions. Where as I have from not only "googleing" it but from knowing people that own, collect, and actively shoot guns on a regular basis on both sides of the border.

I think we can both agree that the USA should do something to help keep the mentally ill from owning any amount of guns but simply put banning all guns will not do anything but cause a lot of trouble, Think back to the long gun registry in Canada and the fiasco it caused Canadians. look at Australia. A country that banned all semi auto and shotguns in 1996 but less than third of the guns were turned in resulting in not much less guns per capita than before the ban and Basically only the criminals kept their illegal guns.

BBC Report:
Australia

1996: Approximately 17.5 guns per 100 people
2016 (most recent numbers available): About 13.7 guns per 100 people

United States

1996: Approximately 91 guns per 100 people
2009 (most recent numbers available): Approximately 101 guns per 100 people

Prior to 1996 there was roughly 350 homicides per year,
1999 = 385 homicides
2007 = 282 homicides,
2013 = 273 homicides

If you equalize Canadian and Australian populations out, Canada has less homicides (ratio) than Aus does. All without a total ban on shotguns and semi auto rifles.

[Poindexter]

Talking about mental illness and guards at schools is the same old shell game NRA supporters have been playing for years. Think Americans are starting to realize that they've been being played like fools and those politicians who continue to use the NRA's playbook of excuses will be shown the door the next time they're up for election.

[Verum]

.

I used 4 different sources to get the stats and facts. But you are correct most of the "Facts" came from one page. But its still much much better sources than what you have listed. One link to a UK study about how we break the law everyday? You still have not provided ANY stats or sources that back up your opinions. Where as I have from not only "googleing" it but from knowing people that own, collect, and actively shoot guns on a regular basis on both sides of the border.

You obviously didn't read much of what I wrote, since I did cite my sources for information in a number of places.

I think we can both agree that the USA should do something to help keep the mentally ill from owning any amount of guns but simply put banning all guns will not do anything but cause a lot of trouble, Think back to the long gun registry in Canada and the fiasco it caused Canadians.

1, the mental illness issue is certainly a problem, but a tiny fraction of the problem, 2, I never suggested completely banning all guns and 3, the long gun fiasco was more of a political stunt by the Cons, rather than a real issue. I know plenty of hunters and none of them were complaining about it.

look at Australia. A country that banned all semi auto and shotguns in 1996 but less than third of the guns were turned in resulting in not much less guns per capita than before the ban and Basically only the criminals kept their illegal guns.

BBC Report:
Australia

1996: Approximately 17.5 guns per 100 people
2016 (most recent numbers available): About 13.7 guns per 100 people

Without digging further, what if only 1/3 of the guns were banned ones? Then surely it worked.

United States

1996: Approximately 91 guns per 100 people
2009 (most recent numbers available): Approximately 101 guns per 100 people

This is a less meaningful statistic than most would have you believe. Gun ownership rates are far more informative and probably number less than 25%.

Prior to 1996 there was roughly 350 homicides per year,
1999 = 385 homicides
2007 = 282 homicides,
2013 = 273 homicides

If you equalize Canadian and Australian populations out, Canada has less homicides (ratio) than Aus does. All without a total ban on shotguns and semi auto rifles.

Never called for a total ban. Canada does quite well. Other countries do better and whether that is down to more stringent gun laws, or better policing, or what, I don't know. What I do know is that the US is particularly bad in this regard and without significant changes, things are not likely to improve. The US has roughly 3.6 gun related homicides per 100,000 people, per year, and the worst EU country is Cyprus at roughly 1, and the majority of EU countries are below 0.3 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate). That's 1/10th the homicide rate. Even Israel, Zimbabwe, and India fare better than the US.

[Verum]

...
Yes they did, and a good thing too: https://www.investors.com/politics/edit ... ved-lives/

Maybe so, I didn't suggest otherwise. But, as I said, it didn't prevent the massacre and it is, at best, a bandaid fix for a gaping wound.

[JLives]

Talking about mental illness and guards at schools is the same old shell game NRA supporters have been playing for years. Think Americans are starting to realize that they've been being played like fools and those politicians who continue to use the NRA's playbook of excuses will be shown the door the next time they're up for election.

No kidding. Every country has people with mental illness and they're not shooting up schools regularly except for in one.

If my kids school decided they needed to arm teachers that would be the first day they started home school. I would totally suck at it but decreasing the odds of my kid being shot to death is more important. And what an unfair burden to place on the teachers. Like they don't have a stressful enough job already? My American teacher friends are horrified at the idea.

What they do need is sensible gun laws and regulation.

[Bigjohn69]

This is how sick the gun disease is in america

Florida has fewer rules about guns than some states, and a broad state statute gives the state sole authority to regulate firearms. It prohibits any local gun ordinances and allows for personal punishment of officials through fines of up to $5,000, lawsuits and removal from office.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/20/us/flori ... index.html

[Bigjohn69]

State Representative Kionne McGhee, a Democrat from Miami, asked for an unusual procedural move to consider his legislation, which had been filed earlier in the session but was never scheduled for a hearing.

“The shooting in Parkland demands extraordinary action,” Mr. McGhee said Tuesday on the House floor, as a group of Stoneman Douglas High students, who had previously arrived, peered down from the gallery.

The motion failed, 36 to 71, in a vote along party lines. At least one student burst into tears, Mr. McGhee said. One girl covered her mouth in despair, as a woman patted her arm to comfort her. The episode lasted 2 minutes and 38 seconds

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/20/us/g ... oting.html

Should be interesting watching florida,gop twist to explain this to the victims

[Bigjohn69]

Jack tries to say the victims are democratic pawns

[Bigjohn69]

A Florida state senator’s aide was fired on Tuesday for telling a reporter that two students who survived last week’s shooting at a high school in Florida were actors who travelled to “various crisis when they happen.”


https://globalnews.ca/news/4037157/flor ... rs-actors/

[Jack DeBear]

The second part of this video could do without the dramatic soundtrack, but overall it’s classic, consistent Jordan B. Peterson.

[Glacier]

...
Yes they did, and a good thing too: https://www.investors.com/politics/edit ... ved-lives/

Maybe so, I didn't suggest otherwise. But, as I said, it didn't prevent the massacre and it is, at best, a bandaid fix for a gaping wound.

Correct, but it did mitigate a problem. There might not be a way to fix the problem, and even if there is, it might take 20 years to actually work it's way through the system (ie. restricting guns now mean it takes years or even decades for the impacts to be felt since there are so many guns out there in the wrong hands). Armed guards might be a stop-gap solution during the transition phase.

The first step is to stop lying. When the media keeps lying non-stop, it's really hard to actually agree on the facts so that a good lasting solution can be found.

[Glacier]

[Jlabute]

As Newt Gingrich says - Have 6 to 8 teachers per school carry a firearm. What other short or long term solution is there? This would also be a deterrent.

[alanjh595]

As Newt Gingrich says - Have 6 to 8 teachers per school carry a firearm. What other short or long term solution is there? This would also be a deterrent.

AND don't tell anybody which of the teachers are carrying. Keep them guessing.

[Nedroj]

[quote]Never called for a total ban. Canada does quite well. Other countries do better and whether that is down to more stringent gun laws, or better policing, or what, I don't know. What I do know is that the US is particularly bad in this regard and without significant changes, things are not likely to improve. The US has roughly 3.6 gun related homicides per 100,000 people, per year, and the worst EU country is Cyprus at roughly 1, and the majority of EU countries are below 0.3 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... death_rate). That's 1/10th the homicide rate. Even Israel, Zimbabwe, and India fare better than the US.[\quote]

No, you never said you wanted a total ban but a lot of people have and that will never happen in the USA. I think the first step is to introduce a mandatory Firearms test similar to what we have here when someone goes for their PAL. This test will not only deny the grossly negligent person from getting their license but it will also allow the instructor to see the individual and possibly determine if there are other signs of mental health issues etc. Down south there is no requirement to prove you are capable and competent enough to own and use a firearm. Any citizen can go into a gun store, provide their information, the store checks the FBI warning list to ensure you're not on it, the next day you can go get your gun. Given that, Im actually surprised their gun homicide rate isn't significantly higher. Probably due to the majority of gun owners being responsible and law biding.

Here is why a total ban wont work:
Currently Since 1994 Canada and the USA have a total ban on certain weapons deemed to be purely killing machines. AUG, Beretta AR-70, UZI, Galil, and AK-47 for example. You know how many AK-47's I've seen in Canada? Personally over 6. And im not involved with criminals and that scene. Unfortunately only the law biding citizens would honor a complete ban leaving the criminals more armed than their potential victims.

I think Canada has a great system in place for gun control that allows responsible gun enthusiasts to enjoy the sport, Hunters can enjoy theirs and people like myself that just like to shoot every now and again can do so. What I would suggest in Canada is stiffer penalties for any crime that involves any item used as a weapon. ie gun, knife, bat, crowbar, vehicle, golf club etc.

Canada 0.38 homicides per 100,000 pop.
USA 3.6 homicides per 100,000 pop.

But compare it to other countries like
Venezuela 39.0 homicides per 100,000
Swaziland 37.16 homicides per 100,000
Jamaica 30.38 homicides per 100,000
Honduras 66.64 homicides per 100,000
Guatemala 29.62 homicides per 100,000

USA doesnt even place in the top 25 countries with the highest murder rate even though they have more guns than most
of those countries combined.