Another shooting rocks the world

[alanjh595]

[alanjh595]

[Fancy]

WRONG it is this thinking that got us here blame someone else take no responsibility

What was wrong with his post and what thinking are you talking about?

why have schools lost control
why have parents lost control

How did the school lose control? And Nikolas Cruz had no parents.

https://bangordailynews.com/2018/02/15/ ... n-trouble/

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... rrest.html

[Poindexter]

Christopher:WRONG it is this thinking that got us here blame someone else take no responsibility

Interesting. So individuals are responsible for thier actions, but gov't isn't.

A little over a month after his inauguration, on Feb. 28, 2017, President Trump signed HJ Resolution 40, a bill that made it easier for people with mental illness to obtain guns.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbsnews ... n-gun-law/

[christopher]

A little over a month after his inauguration, on Feb. 28, 2017, President Trump signed HJ Resolution 40, a bill that made it easier for people with mental illness to obtain guns.

Ya thats blame Trump I didn't see that coming. Keep looking to Blame the Right its working for you.

[christopher]

WRONG it is this thinking that got us here blame someone else take no responsibility

What was wrong with his post and what thinking are you talking about?

why have schools lost control
why have parents lost control

How did the school lose control? And Nikolas Cruz had no parents.

https://bangordailynews.com/2018/02/15/ ... n-trouble/

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... rrest.html

Must be to big of a picture for you guys

[Fancy]

Must be to big of a picture for you guys

Hmmmm - no answer so not sure how to?

[Poindexter]

Ya thats blame Trump I didn't see that coming. Keep looking to Blame the Right its working for you.

Hard to blame Trump because he has no clue what he signs. H.J.Res.40 was introduced by Rep. Sam Johnson and is just the latest proof of the gun lobby's influence over the Republican party.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-con ... n/40?q=%7B"search"%3A%5B"firearm"%5D%7D&r=1

[Omnitheo]

it is this thinking that got us here blame someone else take no responsibility

Blaming someone else is exactly what you are doing.

You are blaming kids, blaming schools, blaming Hollywood, blaming parents.

[Poindexter]

Blaming someone else is exactly what you are doing.

You are blaming kids, blaming schools, blaming Hollywood, blaming parents.

Yeah he tossed around a heaping load if blame and yet still is missing the mark.

Gun lobbyist helped write ATF official's proposal to deregulate.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/13/us/gun-i ... index.html

[Verum]

Gun Control is not a policy. It’s a slogan.

Each time there’s a mass shooting, Democrats and members of the media (but I repeat myself) rush to the microphones and cameras to declare that this, finally, is the proper time to push Gun Control. Gun Control, in this case, is defined as literally anything that restricts gun purchases, transfers, or ownership. It is virtually never anything that will do anything to stop mass shootings.

The argument goes something like this.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/27204/gu ... en-shapiro

It's kind of hard to take Shapiro seriously when he posts articles like this. His belief in American exceptionalism is downright insulting to Americans:

The fallacy in this argument is that the United States has a unique philosophy, history, population, and ownership level of firearms already. That means that proposed solutions must take into account those varying factors, and deal with them head-on.

Yes, every country is unique in basically every way. That doesn't mean that what has been demonstrated to be an effective solution in much of the developed World cannot work in some similar fashion in the US. Things are not so exceptionally bad there, the people are not so exceptionally difficult, that a solution which is at least somewhat effective elsewhere cannot work in the US. It might be harder to implement, and god knows that certain groups will fight against any increased restrictions tooth and nail, but the US is not so uniquely inept, incapable, and wedded to the gun that sensible changes cannot be made. The problem isn't that they can't change, it's that certain groups will block sensible changes, either out of ideology or selfishness.

Some people will compare driving a car to owning a gun (it's a dumb comparison, but whatever) on the basis that both can kill, but I've yet people don't go around claiming that one should be allowed to drive without a licence and insurance, yet any suggestion for the requirement for training, significant waiting periods, requirement to have insurance, etc. are all met with moronic hollers of "what about the second amendment?". It's a bloody amendment, it can be amended, removed, etc. It's only a matter of people deciding that enough is enough.

Then there are the stupid whines about "well if guns are illegal then only the criminals will have them", which at this point it's frankly insulting to have to answer. If guns have largely been removed from society, these kinds of shootings will reduce. Additionally, criminals will be less likely to carry a gun because they are harder to get hold of, more expensive, etc. and because they are less likely to encounter armed resistance. It's called de-escalation. Also, the chances of a "good guy with a gun" actually saving the day is pretty small. The chances that the wrong person will get hold of a "good guy's" gun isn't and the number of kids who die, or accidentally kill another with such should not be ignored.

Yes, there is no complete solution, but it takes a special kind of moron to think that the current system is working. The fact is that the US has an absurdly high rate of gun violence. The solution would need to be massive and enforced across the entire country, and frankly certain groups are so against such, they are willing to have others pay the price so that they can have easy access to weapons simply designed to kill. I guess they feel it a small price for others to pay.

By the way, I'm not advocating for complete removal of guns from society, just the sensible control requiring that people who want guns have to pass reasonable tests of their ability and willingness to safely own and operate a gun, have waited a sensible duration between applying for a licence to own a gun and actually getting a gun, have demonstrated that they have appropriate facilities to store their weapons, have insurance for any damage or harm done by their guns (even in the hands of others), etc.

[Fancy]

When will the United States take another look at their laws?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081

[ferri]

I just have to butt in for a minute. :) I've worked in a gun store.

You can see the paperwork that is filled out here: https://www.fastbound.com/the-new-form- ... s-changed/

The form is about 4 pages longer than it used to be, but you can see the first page. If any of boxes are checked Yes, you show them the door. If they lie (like Cruz did) it is SUPPOSED to be caught. Every night when the gun store closes you take the paperwork to the Police station and they run checks on the potential buyer. They also forward it on the FBI for background checks. There is absolutely no way that kid should have had firearms. Especially after I read that he had known mental health problems and the police had been called to his home 36 times since 2010. Seriously?


https://www.buzzfeed.com/briannasacks/a ... .nf3MGaz0d

See how many red flags you can count in this article: http://www.kgw.com/article/news/nation- ... -518961358

There are a lot of lazy behinds that need to be kicked.

[Glacier]

By the way, I'm not advocating for complete removal of guns from society, just the sensible control requiring that people who want guns have to pass reasonable tests of their ability and willingness to safely own and operate a gun, have waited a sensible duration between applying for a licence to own a gun and actually getting a gun, have demonstrated that they have appropriate facilities to store their weapons, have insurance for any damage or harm done by their guns (even in the hands of others), etc.

Insurance!??? Now that's a stupid thing! It's like how if I have insurance for if my roof collapses from the snow, I'm going to let the snow build up until it collapses so I get a new roof, but if I don't, I'll shovel it off. People are dead. No amount of insurance will bring them back to life. Someone is going to not go on a shooting rampage because they have insurance???

As for other laws, yes I agree, and so does Shapiro. All he's saying is that now is the time to discuss gun laws, and implement the ones that work. Another thing is that existing laws need to be followed, and severe penalties need to be carried out if people don't follow them. Under existing laws, this guy should not have been able to get a gun. If existing laws aren't follow, what makes you think future ones will be followed?

[Merry]

Whenever a tragedy like this happens, everyone starts playing the "blame" game. The right blame the left, the left blame the right, the racists blame the minorities, the mental health advocates blame the lack of mental health funding, the anti gun lobby blame the proliferation of guns, some blame poor parenting, some blame the Government, some blame the teachers, and the list goes on.

The truth is that ALL of those factors frequently play a role. The tragedy's are often the result of the combination of MANY different things, not just one single factor. But as none of us are comfortable acknowledging that maybe, just maybe, something WE approve of and/or enjoy may be partly to blame, we're quick to point the finger elsewhere.

Mass school shootings were virtually unheard of 40 years ago; now they are becoming commonplace. So we need to take an honest look at our society and decide what's changed and then take action. But will we do that? I seriously doubt it.