NRA Lobbying causes US shootings

[Nebula]

Assuming the Guardian's data is correct (the 125 number for Canada is wrong):

* 8,775 firearm related murders in the U.S. in 2010
* 177 firearm related murders in Canada in 2010. (1)

* Population of U.S. in 2010: 307.8 million(2)
* Population of Canada in 2010: 34.1 million (3)

* Rate of firearm related murders in the U.S. in 2010: 2.85 per 100,000 people
* Rate of firearm related murders in Canada in 2010: 0.52 per 100,000 people
* The firearm related murder rate in the U.S. in 2010 was 5.48 times that in Canada.

(1) http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2 ... 61-eng.htm
(2) http://2010.census.gov/news/releases/op ... -cn93.html
(3) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population ... da_by_year

[noneofyourbiz3]

Assuming the Guardian's data is correct (the 125 number for Canada is wrong):

* 8,775 firearm related murders in the U.S. in 2010
* 177 firearm related murders in Canada in 2010. (1)

* Population of U.S. in 2010: 307.8 million(2)
* Population of Canada in 2010: 34.1 million (3)

* Rate of firearm related murders in the U.S. in 2010: 2.85 per 100,000 people
* Rate of firearm related murders in Canada in 2010: 0.52 per 100,000 people
* The firearm related murder rate in the U.S. in 2010 was 5.48 times that in Canada.

(1) http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2 ... 61-eng.htm
(2) http://2010.census.gov/news/releases/op ... -cn93.html
(3) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population ... da_by_year

Awesome. Now the socio/economic climate? Dont try telling me that plays no role as 100 million on some sort of federal assistance and an even larger number below the poverty line. Desperate time=Desperate measures.

[Nebula]

At least one of these numbers appears to be incorrect.

"The United States has the world’s highest rape rate of all countries that publish such data- 13 times higher than England and more than 20 times higher than Japan (12)." (If the U.S. has the highest rape rate, then Canada must have a lower rape rate).
Source: http://www.crisisconnectioninc.org/sexu ... istics.htm

It does appear Canada's property crime rate is higher than the United States by about 20%.

[Nebula]

Awesome. Now the socio/economic climate? Dont try telling me that plays no role as 100 million on some sort of federal assistance and an even larger number below the poverty line. Desperate time=Desperate measures.

I have no idea what you're talking about and it is irrelevant to what I was trying to portray.

I was simply trying to show some good numbers by which to base a conversation off of. They are just numbers; statistics.

Why the crime rate is higher in the U.S. than in Canada, by a factor of five, is completely open to debate.

[noneofyourbiz3]

I have no idea what you're talking about and it is irrelevant to what I was trying to portray.

I was simply trying to show some good numbers by which to base a conversation off of. They are just numbers; statistics.

Why the crime rate is higher in the U.S. than in Canada, by a factor of five, is completely open to debate.[/quote]

So debate. What percentage of these gun related crimes are happening in poorer communities and how many do they have versus us"? We have 35 million people. They have 3 times that on welfare alone. Has relevance and likely contributes to the statistics.

[Rwede]

I'd like to translate those figures into a comparable with what I've posted, the reduced crime rate against incent civilians in the US compared to Canada's. I'll guarantee you one thing, there are more rapists "murdered" in the US by women protecting themselves in home invasions, or fathers protecting their daughters in home invasions, than there are in Canada. Fortunately, there is new Castle Doctrine legislation in Canada coming close to fruition, in the Senate right now.


35. (1) A person is not guilty of an offence if

(a) they either believe on reasonable grounds that they are in peaceable possession of property or are acting under the authority of, or lawfully assisting, a person whom they believe on reasonable grounds is in peaceable possession of property;

(b) they believe on reasonable grounds that another person

(i) is about to enter, is entering or has entered the property without being entitled by law to do so,

(ii) is about to take the property, is doing so or has just done so, or

(iii) is about to damage or destroy the property, or make it inoperative, or is doing so;

(c) the act that constitutes the offence is committed for the purpose of

(i) preventing the other person from entering the property, or removing that person from the property, or

(ii) preventing the other person from taking, damaging or destroying the property or from making it inoperative, or retaking the property from that person; and

(d) the act committed is reasonable in the circumstances.

[Nebula]

I'm not sure why you're picking a fight with me. There were erroneous statements in this thread about firearm related murders in the two countries. I got the information and did the calculations. Now everyone can debate comparing apples to apples.

[grammafreddy]

"The United States has the world’s highest rape rate of all countries that publish such data- 13 times higher than England and more than 20 times higher than Japan (12)." (If the U.S. has the highest rape rate, then Canada must have a lower rape rate).
Source: http://www.crisisconnectioninc.org/sexu ... istics.htm

The pic Richard posted said "sexual assault". Does "sexual assault" only mean "rape"? Perhaps this is comparing apples and oranges?

[Nebula]

I'll tell you one thing, looking for statistics to compare is a daunting task. It is not easy to find apples and apples. I just realized that, to be fair, one has to make sure that the definition of 'sexual assault', for instance, is the same.

[noneofyourbiz3]

In essence you cant compare Canada to the US for this. Social and economic climates are different and usually a contributing factor.
I'll give you my personal stance. If the bad guy has access to guns legal or otherwise...so should I that I may properly and equally protect myself from their harm. Cant rely on the police to do it for me and I never have.

[noneofyourbiz3]

Heres some other stats in the US of note.
Your about 8 times more likely to be killed by a cop than by a terrorist.
You are about 2 times more likely to be sexually assaulted by a cop than a citizen.
Domestic violence is 2-4 times more likely in police families than in the general population.
Sources:
National Centre for Women & Policing
2010 NPMSRP Annual Report.
US National Safety Council.

[hobbyguy]

One can go round and round with statistics.

So I start with the premise that there are legitimate uses for firearms.

1. Hunting
2. Livestock protection
3. Wilderness dangers protection
4. Target shooting as recreation

So what weapons are best for these legitimate purposes? Long guns. Rifles and shotguns. And target pistols, .22 caliber - max 5 shot.

How many magazine shots are needed as at max for these legitimate pursuits? 5 - maybe 6 at max.

What is generally figured to be the best for "home defense"? Either a shotgun (you don't have to be a marksman) or a small caliber rifle, .22 or .223 caliber.

So the NRA backs unlimited magazine size, unlimited caliber/power, the right to own assault rifles, the right to carry concealed handguns.

- What legitimate use of a firearm requires 15 or 30 shot magazines?
- What legitimate use of a firearm requires you to have .50 cal sniper rifle? T-Rex hunting?
- What legitimate use of a firearm requires you to carry a concealed weapon?
- What legitimate use of a firearm requires you to have assault capability?
- What legitimate use of a firearm rquires you own "cop killer" ammunition?

Sorry, I support citizens having access to firearms for legitimate and sporting needs (even though I'm not a hunter and never cared for it) - but this kind of rubbish is just silly and patently unjustifiable.

The easy access to the weapons/ammunition specifically designed for killing people does NOT cause the shootings - but it sure as heck makes them worse. The NRA does have that to answer for.

[grammafreddy]

The NRA does have that to answer for.

No, they don't.

The NRA supports the constitutional right of the citizens of the United States of America to bear arms.

[Nebula]

The NRA supports the constitutional right of the citizens of the United States of America to bear arms.

Some people think the NRA twists the meaning of the right to bear arms, since that particular right was written at the time of one-shot blunderbusses and the authors had never heard of the terms Ak-47 or Mac 10.

[JLives]

Yes but the NRA vision of that is heavily armed militias to overtake the government. It's tinfoil hat territory. Nobody "needs" high capacity automatic weapons. They should look to Canada for how to have the right attitude about firearms. Guns are a tool for acquiring food period in my house.