28 killed at elementary school

[Corneliousrooster]

More Preschoolers Than Cops Get Shot Dead

Most people rightly believe that being a police officer in the US is a seriously dangerous job. But when measured in terms of the risk of being shot and killed, it isn’t: More preschooler’s die every year from guns than do cops.

According to a new report from the Children’s Defense Fund in 2008 and 2009 – the two years after the Virginia Tech shootings – 173 kids age five and under died from gunfire in the US. By comparison, 89 police officers were shot and killed during the same period.

Teens don’t fare any better. The CDF study, the twelfth annual report it has done on gun violence against children in America, reports that the gun homicide rate for teens and young adults ages 15-to-24 in the US is 42.7 times higher than the combined rate for 23 other industrialized nations.

Put differently, the 5,740 children and teens killed by guns during the same two years nearly equals the 6,661 US troops killed in Afghanistan and Iraq since those wars began. The most recent analysis of gun deaths shows that 87 percent of the children under age 15 killed by guns in these 23 nations lived in America.

“By any standards, children in America are under assault,” the Children’s Defense Fund states, adding “and by international standards, America remains an unparalleled world leader in gun deaths of children and teens.”

Yet the NRA and its Congressional supporters have the audacity to still insist the answer to the country’s obscene gun violence is more guns. How many more guns are needed? Already, there are more weapons than broadband connections in America.

Cont...... in link
http://www.laprogressive.com/prescholers-shot/

[RichardW]

The common denominator in all of these shootings was mental illness. IMO that's what needs to be addressed - not gun legislation.

I'd say easily available guns were the most common denominator. Even if we accept that mental illness is the most important common denominator, what do we do with that information? Mental illness is very unlike a grazed knee. There's no band aid fix. How do you identify the people that need treatment? What is that treatment? How is this information turned into a practical solution?

As we've just been shown in this discussion, one of the supposed solutions to mental illness has ended up being the cause of suicide and gun death.

[RichardW]

You know it dosn't matter what evidence is provided the gun grabbers only see what they want to.
Tampa. concealed carry was adopted crime went down 38%
Texas concealed carry adopted crime went down 30%
The gang bangers in Chicago New York and LA will kill each other if there's a gun ban or not, all you do with gun bans and adding to the 2000 federal gun laws that already exist is disarm the law abiding and take away their ability of self defence.
The Clinton gun bad did "nothing" that's why it was allowed to expire.

This whole conversation is moot anyway, any new un-constitunal laws that come from Obamas desk will be blocked by Congress and by the States.
So you gun grabbers lose and the people win.

So do you think that the best thing other developed countries with very low gun circulation can do is to liberalise their gun laws and get their gun count up to US levels as quickly as possible?

[grammafreddy]

When the vast majority of US gun owners are law-abiding citizens who practice safe use and safe handling, how is it fair to take their weapons away from them? If all the guns are confiscated and if owning a gun in the US is illegal, then the only people who will have guns are the criminals and the police. Is that what you want? Most people know the criminals (read drug cartels and organized crime) have MUCH better fire power than the police do and police are reactive - not proactive - they only respond after a crime (read mass murder, weapons and human trafficking, B&E, robbery, etc) has been committed.

You don't seriously think all the little two-bit criminals in Chicago have given up their weapons just because Chicago is a city that bans guns,do you? We know that didn't work. So how will that work in the whole rest of the USA?

[Veovis]

When the vast majority of US gun owners are law-abiding citizens who practice safe use and safe handling, how is it fair to take their weapons away from them? If all the guns are confiscated and if owning a gun in the US is illegal, then the only people who will have guns are the criminals and the police. Is that what you want?

"TAke all guns away" is simply a theory that allows people to feel safe though not affecting any real change. If you change the idea to:

All males must go to a sperm bank and then must be castrated. This is to remove the fact of rape in society as it is a violent crime. This also then shows that anyone who doesn't want to be castrated must therefore be a rapist. If you ever fall in love you have the bank to then create a family, the government will have final say on who can receive your "bullets" though.

If that sounds at all absurd, well, one must then realize that it is not the item that is the true issue, but what people do.

[JLives]

When the vast majority of US gun owners are law-abiding citizens who practice safe use and safe handling, how is it fair to take their weapons away from them? If all the guns are confiscated and if owning a gun in the US is illegal, then the only people who will have guns are the criminals and the police. Is that what you want? Most people know the criminals (read drug cartels and organized crime) have MUCH better fire power than the police do and police are reactive - not proactive - they only respond after a crime (read mass murder, weapons and human trafficking, B&E, robbery, etc) has been committed.

You don't seriously think all the little two-bit criminals in Chicago have given up their weapons just because Chicago is a city that bans guns,do you? We know that didn't work. So how will that work in the whole rest of the USA?

That's not what anyone wants. Are guns banned in Canada? No, we regulate them. The US is trying to make stricter laws, not ban all guns.

[Captain Awesome]

Stricter laws wouldn't prevent this tragedy from happening. Or any other in the future.

Which kinda makes this "ban all guns/some guns/only scary looking guns/Rush Limbaugh" thing kinda pointless but very emotionally fulfilling for some people...

[JLives]

It is not pointless, it is demonstrated to work. That's why this isn't happening on the same level in other countries. They all have mentally ill people and criminals. Yet the country with the most guns has the most gun violence. That doesn't mean it's the only reason but it's a pretty big one.

[Captain Awesome]

It is not pointless, it is demonstrated to work.

Do tell how the new law that is being discussed right (if it's passed) now will prevent this tragedy from happening again in 2 weeks.

[RichardW]

TAke all guns away" is simply a theory that allows people to feel safe though not affecting any real change. If you change the idea to:

All males must go to a sperm bank and then must be castrated. This is to remove the fact of rape in society as it is a violent crime. This also then shows that anyone who doesn't want to be castrated must therefore be a rapist. If you ever fall in love you have the bank to then create a family, the government will have final say on who can receive your "bullets" though.

If that sounds at all absurd, well, one must then realize that it is not the item that is the true issue, but what people do.

Even I'm not advocating for ALL guns to be taken away. But I would like to see more taken away than most, with a strong level of justification for any that remain. I don't hold this opinion just to make people feel safer or because guns per se are the specific problem, but rather because the free availability of guns in the US is driving the gun culture, or at the very least sustaining it. In turn, yet more people are sucked into the gun culture in the belief that they need to protect themselves from the other guns. And so on.

So it's not mental illness, not crime, nor even guns themselves that are causing the gun problem, but rather it is the gun culture that makes guns freely available to most people, and not that difficult to get hold of for everyone else.

As for the castration idea, well, you're highlighting the fact that this is really a civil liberties issue, not an issue about this or that isolated statistic. For the most part, I'm a strong advocate for civil liberties, but I recognise that civil liberties can't be boundless. You've got to draw the line somewhere. But how do you work out where to draw it? Well, you figure out what kind of society you want, along with the values that society holds dear, then do a cost-benefit analysis on all of the different civil liberties to see which ones are worth keeping and which ones come at too great a cost.

So tell me, what sort of society should the US aim to be, what values should it hold dear and why there is room in that society for the US's current gun culture?

[Glacier]

I don't hold this opinion just to make people feel safer or because guns per se are the specific problem, but rather because the free availability of guns in the US is driving the gun culture, or at the very least sustaining it. In turn, yet more people are sucked into the gun culture in the belief that they need to protect themselves from the other guns. And so on.

RichardW[ede Jr.], you're using circular reasoning. ie. your first opinion is true because your second opinion is also true, which in turn makes your third opinion true. And so on.

[grammafreddy]

So tell me, what sort of society should the US aim to be, one where the people can protect themselves

what values should it hold dear upholding The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution - the part of the United States Bill of Rights that protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms. It was adopted on December 15, 1791, along with the rest of the Bill of Rights. The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess and carry firearms.

and why there is room in that society for the US's current gun culture? Millions of legal, responsible gun owners say so

[steelrules]

Two robbery suspects shot dead in Hollywood, NE Miami-Dade

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/01/15/3 ... rylink=cpy

[steelrules]

SAPD: Car thief killed, another wounded at Stone Oak home
http://www.kens5.com/news/SAPD-Car-thie ... 23501.html

[steelrules]

'Gang War' Responsible For 90% Of Oakland Violence...
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/0 ... crime-war/