28 killed at elementary school

Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby Gone_Fishin » Dec 19th, 2012, 7:50 pm

steelrules wrote:But these babies did not die because it was a black scary looking semi-auto rifle, these children had their lives taken by a medicated lunitic that probably killed his mother to get to her guns.



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Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby steelrules » Dec 19th, 2012, 8:19 pm

Captain Awesome wrote:
Yes, let's arm teachers and kids.


Who said anything about Kids or Teachers. *personal attack removed*/ferri
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Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby Captain Awesome » Dec 19th, 2012, 8:25 pm

steelrules wrote:Who said anything about Kids or Teachers. *personal attack removed*/ferri


You said well armed citizenry would prevent this tragedy.

Since school is largely populated with only kids and teachers, how would well armed citizenry would prevent it?
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Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby process99 » Dec 19th, 2012, 8:25 pm

steelrules wrote:Don't be dumb, he might of beat her to death before he shot her in the face, maybe he figured out the combination to the safe.
Only god Knows.


It has been said in media already from many sources that "he" the shooter shot his mother first WHILE SHE WAS SLEEPING in bed.
This indicates that he most certainly had access to the guns before he killed her. Apparently it didn't matter if they were in a weapons safe or hung above the fireplace. He had access to them and quite obviously the ammunitions as well or he would have no projectile to shoot his mother. He did not beat her to death with an unloaded weapon he SHOT her to death while she was sleeping.
The other information seeping out about his mothers supposed plans to relocate him to a more suitable location to attend fulltime/professional care and go to college and his apparent dislike for these plans seem to fit almost eactly a motive and explanatioin for the strange act of killing completly defenseless children, his mother and the others. He chose these people apparently quite carefully as he did with the particular class of children(The ones his mom helped out with) apparently in his delusional mind he was being placed into the system in favor of his mother having given her time/love/attention to these childeren instead of what he was used to. Having mom all to himself.
He seemed to also have chosen to end the lives of those adults whom he felt had threatned the relationship between himself and his mother.
He finished off with the cowardly act of suicide.
I only wish that he had opted to just commit suicide and spare the children and the people that were there to care for him and help him..
That would have made him at least compationate, knowing he would kill these innocents he would have protected them by ending his own life first.
I would be very interested to see the genetics slides when done to see if he carries and displays any of the currently identifed damaged chromosomes seen in serial killers and other forms of identified mental illnesses that lead to horrible conclutions.
If some are / were present then there is a chance that others can be identified before any acts of lunacy or murder are commited.
If they find a marker in this "person" post mortem it just may be the key to identify and prevent any others from reaching the crisis point of making the decision to hurt others. They could be screened very early in life and treated before they are subjected to all the other things in life that cause crisis. Even just knowing may be enough for someone to rethink what they are doing and perhaps NOT act on it realizing that it may be phycosis and make the/A call for help to see if thats why they are thinking those thoughts at that time.
We have reached far enough into the the human genome now that we are able to identify certain genetic mental and physical disorders and this area should be researched as much as possible. This is not to deny their precious medical care but to get that care to those that truly are in need and can be identifed early enough to prevent tragedy .
My thoughts go out to the family, I understand your loss and feel your pain. My heart goes out to you. Chances of you reading this are quite likely none, but if you do understand that time will help you cope with the loss. You are not alone.
If anyone reads this and has ever thought of going on a killing spree to hurt people who have hurt you, just don't . It does not do what you think it will and should you survive the attempt you will wish you had not. So call someone , a friend , the doctor, or even the police or crisis line. DEMAND help, make them understand you are having invasive thoughts and may act on them and you will get help before you destroy your life and maybe others as well. Its not embarrasing to ask or demand help with issues like these, its imperative you get it. Those that will help you will praise your asking for help not beat you down for not helping yourslef. So just do it, get the help before its too late.

Rant off;

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Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby steelrules » Dec 19th, 2012, 8:44 pm

sources?

I agree with you on almost every point, but screening is a slipery slope it's not to too big a leap to where we start screening for other defects.

I will concede that when there are existing mental or emotional problems in a household that there should be regular visits by a psychiatrist to evaluate the familys right to keep firearms at home.

The mother underestimated the depth of her sons problems.
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Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby steelrules » Dec 19th, 2012, 8:51 pm

Captain Awesome wrote: You said well armed citizenry would prevent this tragedy.

Since school is largely populated with only kids and teachers, how would well armed citizenry would prevent it?



Use your head, I'm tired of having to think for you.
Try this for a solution, a retired sheriffs deputy dressed like everyone else but a concealed carry.

It's easy to come up with the right solutions if you try Cap.
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Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby Captain Awesome » Dec 19th, 2012, 8:56 pm

steelrules wrote:Try this for a solution, a retired sheriffs deputy dressed like everyone else but a concealed carry.


...And minefields around schools.
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Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby grammafreddy » Dec 19th, 2012, 9:00 pm

Captain Awesome wrote:
Yes, let's arm teachers and kids.


http://news.yahoo.com/utah-boy-charged- ... 30546.html
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Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby process99 » Dec 19th, 2012, 9:07 pm

steelrules wrote:sources?

I agree with you on almost every point, but screening is a slipery slope it's not to too big a leap to where we start screening for other defects.

I will concede that when there are existing mental or emotional problems in a household that there should be regular visits by a psychiatrist to evaluate the familys right to keep firearms at home.

The mother underestimated the depth of her sons problems.


Most of my sources have come from physicians in person as well the internet , as I grew up in a family where 3 commited suicide so I have done extensive reseach on various forms of mental illness from the common ones ADHD all the way down the list. I have read most of the DSMIV. I also devoted a year to study the medications most commonly used to treat some and all of these disorders. I have friends with Identified disorders and spoken at length with them about their coping mechanisms and meds they use as well as their congnative behaviour therapy etc..
Some of my other reading material included CPS 15th edition several books on CBT and PAD.
I was also required to write several letters to various physiatrists for family members to describe what I had witnessed in the way of behaviors.
So by no choice of my own I have had to become educated on various forms of mental disturbance and their consequences to the individuals and their families. I am also looking at the ages these disorders present and how children are treated IE: CBT or MEDs and what types at what ages and what results they are getting with the current research programs going on.
I had to do this to try and understand the suicides I had to deal with as it was me who found two of them and was unable to save them at that point. So I went to try and understand if I could have caught the signs earlier and what could be done about it in order to protect others from the same pain I had / have to endure daily.

With regards to your comment on the mother and her understanding of what exactly or how fragile her sons personality was. I would think based on her attempts to get him help she know some things but either motherly love superceded the need for professional care or she just wasn't screaming loud enough and demanding help.
As most know trying to get help for a nearly adult /adult is very difficult unless you become difficult then they will act on your behalf and look closely at what the problem may be. (I went through this as well, its NOT easy).
As I said previous post, demand help don't just be meek and helpless , demand it , make them understand how serious it is before it becomes even more serious..

Hope that answers your questions..

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Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby Madhue » Dec 19th, 2012, 9:13 pm

Captain Awesome wrote:The main difference between US and Canada is that US declares owning firearms as a right. In Canada, it's more of a privilege.

And it should stay that way, in my opinion.

Canadians vacate many rights that are afford Americans, Free Speech for example, freedom of the Press is another.
Canadians look at Americans gun legislation with the same level of Absurd fears as Americans look at Canadians Health Care system. Exaggerated claims on both sides are ridiculous. Facts are Facts, US crime rates are lower, much because citizens have the right to protect themselves. Its not just King George the Second Amendment is around for its for its citizenry to actively be allotted an opportunity to defend themselves.

People in Canada act like such crazy things only happen in the US because of silly stereotyped logic that suggests "Mercians love their guns to much... well
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ra ... _massacres
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Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby steelrules » Dec 19th, 2012, 9:22 pm

Process, thank you for your reply.
I think we are in agreement, it's a mental health issue period.
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Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby Static » Dec 19th, 2012, 9:26 pm

:139: Lets blame the American culture for this one...and all the others throughout its history.
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Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby grammafreddy » Dec 19th, 2012, 9:29 pm

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Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby goatboy » Dec 19th, 2012, 10:15 pm

steelrules wrote:No law would have prevented what happened, only a well armed citizenry can and will stop these mass shootings.
There's the logic.


The day that teachers are armed in our schools is the day I consider moving to another country. It's this logic that's got the US into the situation they have today with gun deaths. More guns is NOT the answer.
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Re: 28 killed at elementary school

Postby Nebula » Dec 20th, 2012, 1:10 am

If a well armed citizenry is the answer to stop mass shootings, then the reverse should be true. A not well armed citizenry should be faced with a sky high murder rate.

Canadians are not well armed, yet our murder rate by guns is very low to the U.S. The British are even less well armed and their firearm murder rate is low.

What the heck? Could the well armed citizenry angle be not true?
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