Castanet

Quickmansam wrote:What to do you guys think?

'As of the year 2000, there were seven countries without a Rothschild-owned Central Bank:

Afghanistan, Iraq, Sudan, Libya, Cuba, North Korea, Iran

The only countries left in 2011 without a Central Bank owned by the Rothschild Family are:

Cuba, North Korea, Iran.

Spocky wrote:
The North Koreans spent millions of dollars which they have taken away from feeding their population (where millions are starving and eating hay in a futile effort to survive) to develop a 6,000 mile striking range to hit the mainland USA. That's their stated goal. If they're going to use it or not is only in the domain of crystal balls.

The Americans have been known to spend a few bucks on their military and are closer to financial collapse than the Koreans.

Quickmansam wrote:What to do you guys think?

What I think is that you apparently have very little knowledge of the Korean war. You asked.

Would you care to elaborate? Or is that just a frustrated opinion to a point of view you simply do not support?

Quickmansam wrote:Would you care to elaborate? Or is that just a frustrated opinion to a point of view you simply do not support?

No, I don't really care to elaborate to be honest. Judging by your post and some of the comments made I suspect that you are ignorant of the events that lead up to the Korean conflict as well as events during the hostilities and after the cease fire. You are of course enititled to your own opinion and I certainly do not begrudge you for it regardless whether I agree with it or not.

You asked a question and I provided my answer.

DashFiveGuy wrote:
No, I don't really care to elaborate to be honest. Judging by your post and some of the comments made I suspect that you are ignorant of the events that lead up to the Korean conflict as well as events during the hostilities and after the cease fire. You are of course enititled to your own opinion and I certainly do not begrudge you for it regardless whether I agree with it or not.

You asked a question and I provided my answer.

Well, I'd like to be enlightened and cleared of my ignorance. And since you clearly have an opinion of your own, do you care to share? For the better of all?
The events leading up to the conflict? What are you referring to? The Japanese occupation? The liberation of the northern part of Korea by the Soviet Union or the defeat of japanese forces in the south by the American army? The Division of Korea, unilaterally without Korean consent? The installation of a anti-communist hardliner 'Republic' in the south and a Communist Republic in the north? The elections called by Kim Il-sung on the 7th of June, the diplomates sent by the North to discuses the elections, arrested by the south?
Both sides were desperate to reunite their people, but backed by superpowers fighting their own 'cold' war.
Both sides threatened each other, both fired shots across the brow.
But what has to be remembered is that South Korea, like South Vietnam, is a artificial state. And like in Vietnam, artificial states face revolts and rebellions that can only be put down by force. The Mungyeong Massacre is just one 'recorded' example of this.
There is no question at all, that America created the Republic of south Korea, and maintained it so.
Now, i'm sure your talking about narrower, contained events that simmered below the surface but had major impacts on history. (stop me if anything i'm saying isn't factual)

The events during the war?
Well, It all came to a front when North Korea, fuelled by patriotic jealous (and backed more or less by Russia and China), moved their armed forces into the south, to reunite Korea in one sweeping move.

south Korean armed resistance was unable to stop the unifying army and by 28th of June Seoul had been liberated by the North. Not before Rhee ordered the Bodo League massacre and the bombing of bridges that still had people on them.
A short times work, the North Korean army had managed to liberate most of Korea, and it was looking like peace was actually going to visit the besieged people of Korea.

However, south Korea was saved, by the mass force of the United States army (which even back then was the most powerful) leading a ragtag "UN" invasion force. North Korea had control over 90& of Korea, before America invaded again and stomped on the ill-equiped and trained forces of Korea. They themselves pushed back and stopped only by the intervention of the People's Republic of China (again, stop me if anything i'm saying isn't factual)
During the war, a whole list of war crimes were committed, some by the communists in the North, most by the American forces in the south, including chemical warfare which had been outlawed since world war one (but lets be real, international law has no bearings on America.)
But, again, here I think you mean less reported events, that simmered below the flash and bang of what we read about today.

The events after the war?

Some would like to think we've yet to see them, as the war never really ended.
The boom of south Koreas' economy and military power? Fuelled solely by the most power economy in the world.
The collapse(more or less) of North Koreas' economy and military power(the Soviets' and Chinese weren't nearly as capable of propping up another country, clearly the Soviets' weren't even capable of propping up their own country)
The many hostile actions taken by both sides throughout the years...
North Korea now struggles forward, against a tidal wave of suppression that they are wholly incapable of fighting, yet continue to do so out of pride and honour. Developing nukes and trying to retain an army to counter an enemy could wipe it out without some much as breaking a sweat.

Please, expel my ignorance, and enlighten me to the things I don't know about Korea. Though, I don't think I mentioned the Korean war in my reply this topic... (*Slaps self in head and mutters 'I told you to pro-read what you post. Don't just mutter nonsense')

But the topic here is the threat posed to B.C ( and Canada as a greater) by a Nuclear North Korea.
There is none.

North Korea has nuclear weapons, which it has every right to. They are wholly incapable of reaching anywhere near Canada. Period.

So, instead of joining America in it's perpetual cycle of warmongering and fear, we should lead the world community in welcoming North Korea into a new era of cooperation. Help boost it's economy and standard of living, encourage dialogue not order it. No one bites the hand that feeds them, if we help North Korea, they are less likely to act aggressively (if we stop this war against them, they have no reason to defend themselves against us)

Then nukes or not, we can bring peace and prosperity to Korea. Or, we can stop yammering because North Korea is a self determining state that builds nukes like the rest of us, and goes into space like everyone else. Give them food and money and we might see another gangnam style... oh, in that case, maybe we shouldn't

Now I know you don't want to enlighten me, you'd rather just 'know' your right and i'm wrong... The American way of thinking.

"As the starving cannot feed the hungry - ignorance cannot be expel by the ignorant"

Quickmansam wrote:[SNIP]But the topic here is the threat posed to B.C ( and Canada as a greater) by a Nuclear North Korea.
There is none.
North Korea has nuclear weapons, which it has every right to. They are wholly incapable of reaching anywhere near Canada. Period.
[SNIP]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/23/world/asia/north-korea-rocket/index.html

I guess you must be gauging the geographical position of N. Korea and Canada through Apple iOS6 Maps.

Lol!!
Apple burn...

No, but really, we have the entire pacific ocean between us, and look at that, we sit on top of a nation that has thousands of warships, military bases, airbase and missile defense bases in that very ocean, - now, unless North Korea somehow leap jumped pass the US in missile technology, I think we have a greater chance of being hit by a mutant flying panda from Mars then getting hit by a Nuke from Korea.

But yes... Apple needs to on it's maps

First of all I think that it's just as likely that North Korea will become the next Disneyland as it is that they'll successfully be able to lob anything 6,000 miles. However, IF we are to assume that their missiles can live up to their design parameters, then all of southern BC is right in the trajectory of the closest points of the lower 48 to NK. The US anti-missile tech is even more frightening than the NK's missile feasibility. The Americans would not hesitate for one second in saving Seattle or Spokane to intercept a missile before it crosses the border and scatter weapons grade plutonium and uranium all over the Okanagan.

... and yes, if Steve had eaten less fruit he's still be around and Apple Maps would never have seen the light of day!

The things is, any missile fired from Korea would either be shot down by south Korea (Heavy US military presence), Japan (again, both countries are more or less US military bases in and of themselves) or at the very worst, if the Koreans somehow fired the missile off while the US Army slept in - it would be intercepted over Hawaii, that is where Pearl Harbor is let's not forget. A swan can't fly over without the US Army fully aware of it.

And not to mention, a nuclear bomb going off in the Okanagan or lower mainland would just as well effect the states, they would not let that happen. Even a low yield weapon like the Koreans have, would blow over into the states and cause much chaos.
Our economy would be ruined because Vancouver would be more or less evacuated and the Okanagan would be gone, this would seriously damage America's economy and cause likely a big Wall Street scare... Yeah, it wouldn't happen, people think ahead, America is much more likely to level the whole peninsula and kill every living thing on it then Korea firing one of it`s missiles in aggression. We are safe.

The only possible scenario that could result in a nuke hitting BC is if, the Koreans got in close enough that the only option America had was to shoot it down over BC or themselves, but that would require bypassing the entire ocean and would likely require a nuclear submarine - which, let’s be real, the Koreans wouldn't even know how to drive.


But, yeah, did you see Ashton Kutcher? Double over? I thought fruit was good for you? And I bet Steve Jobs rolled over in his grave when Apple Maps came out

Go to

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=ICN-GEG

And you'll see that the trajectory between Seoul and Spokane (close enough) is way up over the Bering Strait area and then takes it right over our area. I have no knowledge of what NORAD coverage is up there but shooting down an ICBM isn't a fish in the barrel situation. The window of opportunity is right after launch and unless the Americans have some heavy duty antimissile tech situated right off shore, the chances of the NK missile reaching its target (or at least get somewhere near it) are pretty good. I also believe that if it ever got to the point of the Americans having to choose between wiping out the Okanagan or Spokane through a direct strike, we'd be goners in a second. Sure, the resulting situation would be apocalyptic especially for the NK crazies, but they'd reap what they've sown!

Yeah, Kutcher couldn't take the fruitiness for a short period of time, it leads you to wonder how Jobs managed it for decades. Just goes to prove that you can't be a genius about everything!

Again, though, it would still have to get by south Korea, Japna, Russia (whom would not let a nuclare weapon go off, lets be real) and Alsaka(NORAD does not end at the 48) and then move across the Northern Territories.

Now, it is true that shooting down an ICBM is a difficult task, and there are time windows that need to be addressed.
But first off, south Korea is literally next door to North Korea, and has a massive American Army presence, any threat to anyone would be shot down seconds after take off, followed by the utter desturction of Korea.
Second, Japen is also right next door and would be able to intercept the missile long before it reaches any kind of speed, again, followed by the extermination of every living creature in Korea.
Third, Russia has missile defense systems of their own in that area and would without blinking an eye, destory the missile. They wouldn't allow North Korea to lay their own grave (though America would still nuke the hell out of them)
Then there's Alsaka, sitting at the border with Russia, I think we both know that they are heavily defended, all that open space isn't just barren, you know.

Finally, theres our Northern Territories, the Yukon that projection shows it going over, the missile wouldn't make it. We and the American's both have more then enough defensive positions there not to worry (Well, they might worry, because if anything that is where the missile would be intercepted)

Then we also have to go into space. Once the missile goes out of this world, is actually the best time to hit it, (pretty much no damage taken to us or America) and it is most likely that if it slipped by south Korea, Japan and Russia, then it would simply be shot down by America's Air Force Space Command which is fully capable of shooting down one or two missiles, this is Korea not Russia we're talking about.

Then you have to accept the fact that Korea is not technologically able to out-do the US in missile technology, regardless of how far they can sling it, they would need to get through the many defesens of America.

An ICBM, like an other projectile, can be intercepted in flight, and is likely to be, giving our advanced state of weaponary. It is more like to be shot in flight then right off the bat (giving that any realistic missile site would have it's own defenses)
At the very worst, the missile would be shot before reentering the atmos, causing great radiation fallout but no physical damage.
The most effective way of nuking anyone is with an Air drop, or a rain of missiles (like our state of the art ICBMs that we have - making it really hard to intercept that one nuke when you got a hundred falling on your head) Again, North Korean missiles are not like the ones we have, their more like the ones we had back in the 60s.

And the North Koreans, what have they ever done to anyone? They deserve Nuclare defense, AND our helping hand to lift them out of their desperate situation that America has forced on them. We committ more crimes against them then they do us (they don't committ ANY crimes against us or anyone else) It is us who should reap the destruction, should we not do our part in leading the global community in welcoming North Korea into a new era of cooperation.


Yeah, poor guy, maybe one to many LSDs. I feel sorry for Apple now

I'm with you on most of these items but have to definitely display my disapproval on one of your tenets. NK is a lunatic state run by a bunch of whackos who are literally starving at least half of their own population into eating hay and each other. That is a proven fact. They deserve immediate invasion and permanent occupation for the sake of the people of NK, not the couple of dozen grand poobahs who are living off the death and misery of millions of the citizens they are supposed to be protecting.

Okay, and this is the real sticking point. There is a hatred towards North Korea that is completely unfounded and inhumane.

Why do you view them as a "lunatic" (or the politically correct term of 'Rouge') state?
In what way is their country different than ours? Or China?
And ran by whackos? Clearly you've never looked south, those freaking people are whackos!
No, in fact their leadership is some of the best statesmen we know of - Their first leader, the grandpa of their current leader, was a polite, charismatic leader loved by Koreans on both sides of the border before the war broke out.
There current (and recently deceased) leadership has managed to keep the countries army strong, develop nuclear weapons, enter the space age by sending a satellite into orbit. As well as keep their people content and the political landscape stable, all while being oppressed by the entire world. That takes extreme courage and dedication, no one in it for any reason other than patriotic honor would hold out.
You mentioned that the leadership is living off the poor, if that was the case, the country would have collapsed under American pressure a long time ago.

And they are not eating themselves, and if they were then we should sell them food! You say 'for the sake of the people' but if anyone wanted to help the people, they would. Period. Boosting their economy does help the people. Sending them aid does help the people. Working with them instead of against them does help the people. Removing messed up American sanctions does help the people.

Their leadership is doing everything in their people to help their people and protect them from oppression, to protect their culture and independence. We are the only ones causing the people pain.

And you say we should invade them?! Killing thousands if not millions of innocents because we have some unfounded problem with their chosen leaders? What can of American madness are you talking? I expect that kind of talk from an American (after all, the only thing they know is death and destruction) But as a Canadian, you should know better.

How would you like it if Russia or China decided "Hey, look how Canada treats their native people just so the few can live wealthy lives, we're gonna go destroy their industry, kill thousands of their people and then rule over them like slave masters… You know, for the peoples sake."

We need to break from this American mindset, we are way better than them

Dude, when you say:

"No, in fact their leadership is some of the best statesmen we know of"

and

"And they are not eating themselves, and if they were then we should sell them food!"

in light of:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/01 ... 65100.html

Then, with all due respect, this conversation is over. You have let your rabid anti-Americanism taint your vision of reality and there's no point discussing this with you. Over and out.