Disturbing manifesto of a psycho ex-cop

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Nebula
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Re: Disturbing manifesto of a psycho ex-cop

Post by Nebula »

baconbits wrote:If you've read my comments you would have seen that I have said I don't condone what he has done. My beef is how the "manhunt" took place.

Perhaps we should have had two threads going.

Sometimes a necessary evil has to take place for a greater good.

Fundamentally this is where we differ greatly. Dorner's evil was not necessary, nor warranted.

I bet that will getcha stirred up!!

I don't get stirred up. Look at my avatar.
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Re: Disturbing manifesto of a psycho ex-cop

Post by baconbits »

Nebula wrote:
I can't speak for everyone else. You are assuming and nothing more. My motive to countering your posts has nothing to do with always believing in what the authorities say. On the other hand, it does seem clear to me that you live in a bubble where you are so against the cops that you are willing to discount the actions of a serial killer in order to focus energies only on what the police may or may not have done.


So I don't understand what your motives are then.

I'm not against cops, I"m against crooked cops.

Cops are supposed to follow a certain code of ethics, which they didn't.

That to me is more concerning in the "big picture" compared to a Dorner's actions which we know why he went through with them.
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Nebula
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Re: Disturbing manifesto of a psycho ex-cop

Post by Nebula »

baconbits wrote:So I don't understand what your motives are then.

I'm not against cops, I"m against crooked cops.

Cops are supposed to follow a certain code of ethics, which they didn't.

That to me is more concerning in the "big picture" compared to a Dorner's actions which we know why he went through with them.

I disagree. Dorner's actions were, in the context of what went on, far more destructive and dangerous. He killed four people. His actions were grossly beyond whatever he felt he needed to fix. As far as I'm concerned, he was *bleep* off at not being listened to and getting fired and his response was to murder four people.

You don't even know if Dorner's accusations are true, yet you are willing to believe him and (incredibly) discount the fact that he murdered four people in order to put the spotlight on police officers who may or may not have done something wrong.
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Re: Disturbing manifesto of a psycho ex-cop

Post by baconbits »

This was written on February 12th/2013



Even Chris Dorner has Constitutional Rights


Christopher Dorner – Courtesy of The Examiner
Christopher Dorner’s case presents a troubling account of the Los Angeles Police Department’s (“LAPD”) search for Dorner. Christopher Dorner, age 33, retired military and former police officer is alleged to have killed three persons in revenge retaliation of his dismissal from the police force for lying about a fellow officer he accused of excessive force towards a mentally ill suspect. Dorner vowed to seek revenge by “killing officers and their families.” He is suspected in the killings of three persons, including one police officer. As of Monday, February 11, 2013, Christopher Dorner was charged in the killing of one police officer and the attempted murder of 3 others.

Since last week, the LAPD has been on a rampage of their own, in attempting to locate Dorner. It is no doubt that the police are on edge while Dorner is running rogue and rampant allegedly killing police. However, the LAPD has proven they intend to use deadly force, shoot first and ask questions later—if there is a later. Their style of justice has resulted in the shootings at three innocent persons. The first incident occurred on Thursday, February 7 when David Perdue, a white man was shot at by police while en route to go surfing, according to the LA Times. 71 year old Emma Hernandez and her daughter Maggie Carranza, 47 who were driving an aqua blue Toyota Tacoma and not a grey Nissan Titan like Dorner’s vehicle, were shot at over 30 times with no warnings the following day. Hernandez was shot in the back two times. Those shots were intended for whom the police thought was Christopher Dorner. While I understand the frustration and tensions of the police in looking for Dorner, their frustration cannot lead to the loss of other innocent lives and the disregard of the laws that apply to our society.

The laws and rights that still apply to Christopher Dorner are etched in the U.S. Constitution. No matter what the circumstances, we as a civilized society still have laws in place. And those laws apply to even alleged police killers. Even though Dorner appears armed and dangerous, no law says that he should be shot immediately on sight without warning. By all accounts so far, that’s exactly what the LAPD intend to do. Let me make clear that I certainly do not condone the alleged actions of Christopher Dorner.



The Dorner case in some aspects reminds me of the D.C. Sniper case in October, 2002. For 3 weeks, in the District of Columbia, Maryland and Virginia, John Muhammad, known as the D.C. Sniper and his companion, Lee Boyd Malvo went on a random killing rampage directed at innocent persons of all races, genders and ages. Ten people were killed and three others critically injured. The actions of the two put the entire region on edge and concern for safety—similar to Dorner. Killings and shootings by Muhammad and Malvo occurred at gas stations, in shopping mall parking lots, near schools, at bus stops and other public locations—all at random individuals. It was suspected that the two were driving a white van. During the three weeks in October, 2002 before apprehension, countless white vans were stopped and searched for the two. In the end, no white van was involved. Law enforcement officers in all three jurisdictions never once shot at an innocent person.



At the end, the D.C. Sniper, John Muhammad and his companion co-conspirator Lee Boyd Malvo were apprehended while sleeping in a car. If Chris Dorner is found sleeping in a car, he’ll die in his sleep. His former fellow police officers will probably shoot and kill him before sounding any warning or reading any Constitutional rights. At the end of the day, if this should happen, the hunted and the hunters become one and the same –both taking life unjustifiably. I don’t condone the alleged actions of Christopher Dorner, but I know he is still entitled to the rights afforded him under the U. S. Constitution. And the LAPD have no right to take away his constitutional rights- even if the case is personal to them.

Among those Constitutional rights are ones enumerated in the 5th and 6th amendments. Under the 5th amendment, no person held to answer for a crime shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process. And under the 6th amendment, an accused has a right to a trial by jury, to confront witnesses and to a speedy trial. It may be doubtful if Christopher Dorner wants to be taken alive but that is not for the LAPD to decide by shooting without warning at vehicles that appear to belong to Dorner.

The LAPD are making the case for Chris Dorner by using excessive and almost deadly force against innocent bystanders, whom they mistakenly believed to be Dorner. Where police and the criminal suspect take the law into their own hands, no one is safe. And everyone’s rights are infringed, even innocent persons. No one should be above the law—including the LAPD even while searching for Christopher Dorner.

While a peaceful surrender by Christopher Dorner appears unlikely at this point, the LAPD should not shoot to kill him on sight. Even Christopher Dorner has constitutional rights.
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Re: Disturbing manifesto of a psycho ex-cop

Post by baconbits »

Well by the actions of the cops it sure looks like they have a few bad apples in there...

Shooting at random people without even finding out if they we're suspects...
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Nebula
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Re: Disturbing manifesto of a psycho ex-cop

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baconbits wrote:Shooting at random people without even finding out if they we're suspects...

Yup. Sort of like killing four people without finding out if they were directly involved in what originally *bleep* you off.

P.S. Well written opinion piece above.
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Re: Disturbing manifesto of a psycho ex-cop

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baconbits wrote:If you've read my comments you would have seen that I have said I don't condone what he has done. My beef is how the "manhunt" took place.



How would you have handled it?
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zzontar
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Re: Disturbing manifesto of a psycho ex-cop

Post by zzontar »

Doing what the bad cops Dorner was against did was wrong. Trying to cover it up and fire him because the complaints was wrong. Retaliating by murdering those four people was wrong. Going about the bring-em-back dead manhunt was wrong.

I'll bet three out of the four wrongs go unanswered or there will be some wrist-slapping.
Last edited by zzontar on Feb 16th, 2013, 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Disturbing manifesto of a psycho ex-cop

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zzontar wrote:
Even if it wasn't his choice, it was the cops choice so the outcome would have been the same.
goatboy wrote:
Given that this never happened, you have no idea if that is true.


Seven incindiery gas cannisters had to be used? They knew by lobbing that many that the house would be engulfed quickly and that if Dorner came out they could easily say they thought he had a gun in his hand but the smoke made it difficult to see or any excuse to kill him as soon as he exited.
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Re: Disturbing manifesto of a psycho ex-cop

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Nebula wrote:Dorner's actions were, in the context of what went on, far more destructive and dangerous. He killed four people. COPS KILLED TWO. His actions were grossly beyond whatever he felt he needed to fix. AS WAS THE CASE WITH THE COPS AS WELL. As far as I'm concerned, he was *bleep* off at not being listened to and getting fired and his response was to murder four people. AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED, THE COPS WERE *bleep* OFF AT NOT BEING LISTENED TO AND GOT FIRED UP ENOUGH TO KILL TWO PEOPLE.

You don't even know if Dorner's accusations are true, yet you are willing to believe him and (incredibly) discount the fact that he murdered four people in order to put the spotlight on police officers who may or may not have done something wrong. YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THE COPS ACCUSATIONS ARE TRUE, YET YOU ARE WILLING TO BELIEVE THEM AND (INCREDIBLY) DISCOUNT THE FACT THAT THEY MURDERED TWO PEOPLE IN ORDER TO PUT THE SPOTLIGHT ON DORNER WHO MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE DONE SOMETHING WRONG.


I think it's pretty safe to say that both the cops and Dorner did some things wrong.

My apologies for all the caps. I thought it the best way to keep the text easy to separate visually.
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Nebula
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Re: Disturbing manifesto of a psycho ex-cop

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Two people?
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steven lloyd
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Re: Disturbing manifesto of a psycho ex-cop

Post by steven lloyd »

Thank God this ended before even more innocent people were critically injured or lost their lives.
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Re: Disturbing manifesto of a psycho ex-cop

Post by sobrohusfat »

NEXT...
The adventure continues...

No good story ever started with; "So i stayed home."
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Re: Disturbing manifesto of a psycho ex-cop

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steven lloyd wrote:Thank God this ended before even more innocent people were critically injured or lost their lives.


You don't think that will keep happening at the hands of LAPD's worst?
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Re: Disturbing manifesto of a psycho ex-cop

Post by Graham Adder »

Nebula wrote:Two people?

My apologies...the pigs only killed one...the other one lived miraculously.
Not that they didn't try very hard to kill her too though.
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