Obamacare

[hobbyguy]

What always amazes me is the cost of health care coverage in the US.

I thought I'd check another developed country that uses a private insurance/private for profit hospital system, the Netherlands. http://www.ask.com/wiki/Healthcare_in_the_Netherlands?o=2801&qsrc=999&ad=doubleDown&an=apn&ap=ask.com

"A key feature of the Dutch system is that premiums may not be related to health status or age. Risk variances between private health insurance companies due to the different risks presented by individual policy holders are compensated through risk equalization and a common risk pool. Funding for all short-term health care is 50% from employers, 45% from the insured person and 5% by the government. Children under 18 are covered for free. Those on low incomes receive compensation to help them pay their insurance. Premiums paid by the insured are about 100 € per month (about US$127 in Aug. 2010 and in 2012 €150 or US$196,) with variation of about 5% between the various competing insurers, and deductible a year €220 US$288."

If I read it correctly, a family of 5 in the Netherlands pays about $400/month. Contrast that with the Southern California family who think their new ACA plan is a good deal at $1,300/month.

How many of us could swing $1,300/month for health care insurance? Thank you Tommy Douglas.

[rvrepairnut]

what bugs me about CDN health care is why does every province provide it free except BC and Ontario and why not let people buy private medical care if they have the money.It would take the pressure off our current overloaded system that is badley abused by people whom are on welfare or have status etc.
I don't mind paying $60 PM but just saying

[JLives]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... hpt=hp_bn3

(CNN) – A revamped federal health care website has helped enroll 29,000 Americans in insurance plans over the past several days, a source familiar with the numbers said on Wednesday.

The number is higher than the online enrollments for the entire month of October, and reflects a boost in sign-ups after HealthCare.gov underwent a massive repair job after its initial launch.

Just like every major technological rollout, it had some problems at the beginning but looks to be picking up speed now.

[hobbyguy]

I had to laugh at John Boehner, when the website wasn't working it was a "disaster" and "showed that the whole thing should be scrapped". Now the website is largely fixed, "It's just a website". A bigger laugh when he laid out in generalities a "pie in the sky" perfect system where everything free for everybody, and when asked if he would introduce such legislation, he hummed and hawed and dodged away - because of course, such a plan does not exist.

[grammafreddy]

LOL - its a long way from "fixed".

[JLives]

And it's a long way from broken. Of course there would be glitches and hiccups and people falling through the cracks. It happens every single time large legislation or technology is implemented. Google crashed regularly when it first came out. It's just totally ridiculous to be calling it a failure or a success at this point yet there was an entire political party doing it before it was even rolled out.

[Poindexter]

I had to laugh at John Boehner, when the website wasn't working it was a "disaster" and "showed that the whole thing should be scrapped". Now the website is largely fixed, "It's just a website". A bigger laugh when he laid out in generalities a "pie in the sky" perfect system where everything free for everybody, and when asked if he would introduce such legislation, he hummed and hawed and dodged away - because of course, such a plan does not exist.

*bleep* is always good for a laugh. From his drunken slurred rhetoric to his orange sprayed on tan, the guy is a feast for comedians. He'll be glad he has medical coverage when his liver finally kicks it, but is only too happy to let other less fortunate souls hit finacially ruin if they fall ill.

[Poindexter]

And it's a long way from broken. Of course there would be glitches and hiccups and people falling through the cracks. It happens every single time large legislation or technology is implemented. Google crashed regularly when it first came out. It's just totally ridiculous to be calling it a failure or a success at this point yet there was an entire political party doing it before it was even rolled out.

Totally agree. Have a friend who got in a motorbike accident across the border. His total time spent in the hospital was less than 24 hours yet his bill was just over 30grand. Imagine if you were denied any coverage by all insurance companies due to a minor prior condition how panicked you'd be if admitted to a hospital without coverage. I'd like the GOP to explain how the average joe would pay that kind of bill out of pocket. The ACA is a huge leap forward and the GOP know it, they just hate the fact it was a Dem who was the first to role it out and are in desperation mode and will throw any brick they can find at Obama. The website is simply the only ammo they have now that the economy is recovering.

[hobbyguy]

I remain convinced that the GOP has only one reason for being opposed to the ACA - their base has a bunch of rednecks in it that just plain can't stand having a black man as president. They also have a whole bunch more crackpots that are still fighting the civil war. In playing to these unreasoning bigots the Republicans simply can not support anything positive, even to the point of keeping the government running.

The for profit insurance and health care industries have 50 million reasons to support the ACA. All those new customers, with government subsidies to make sure they can pay their premiums. Plus all those new customers that the for profit hospitals used to have to treat in their emergency rooms for free. The establishment pro-business Republicans must be quite happy with their idea of health care going forward.

You will note that much of the Republican opposition has been a mile wide and an inch deep. Bumper sticker politics and no genuine effort to amend. Boehner and McConnell knew darn well they couldn't defund it, and knew darn well that a government shut down would accomplish nothing, but in their self-serving they allowed those efforts to go forward so that on the hustings they can say to the CTP (cracked tea pots) that they tried.

Meanwhile, you have "rocket scientists" like Mr. 0ne, two, uh...uh...gee, what comes after two, Perry refusing to accept federal money to cover poor folks in their states under medicare.

The CTP is driving the Republican party over the cliff to where their "base" will consist solely of a collection of skinheads, Aryan brotherhood members, and old fat white ex KKK types. Imean really, the "brain trust" of the GOP is becoming the likes of Louis Gohmert and Rick Perry and that intellectual giant Michelle Bachman?? Eisenhower and Reagan must be rolling in their graves - but then they would never have gotten through a primary dominated by the CTP.

If the whole thing wasn't so sad and dangerous, it would be funny.

[grammafreddy]

The ACA is not going to be able to pay for itself - not when so many people have been approved for government subsidies and MediCare. That's on the low end of incomes. The high end can afford all the insurance they want so it won't be them paying into the ACA - they'll buy what they need elsewhere. So who is left to fund the ACA? The middle class - $25,000 to $80,000 annual incomes. They don't qualify for any subsidies or discounts - and ObamaCare premiums are not affordable at $600 ++++ - a month per person with deductibles of $10,000 or more. A family of two adults and two kids is looking at monthly payments of about $2,000 per month (there is no family rate; it is all per person)

Those shovel-ready graves are for the middle income earners.

This isn't about left vs right - it is about affordability for the middle class. Sure, there will be the ones who through some means (and other employer health care plans) will end up paying less but I am just talking about the majority of the middle income folks and the ACA.

And we all know too well, how when government money gets tight, services have a way of disappearing or waiting lists get a lot longer because they do fewer of them.

[hobbyguy]

In that sense, GF, you are absolutely correct. The ACA is an idea cooked up by corporatists, like Mitt Romney, to fleece the American people through private health care. Every other developed country already had universal health care, and regardless of whether it is government run, or private insurance, it has one fundamental element: single payer.

What the ACA is trying to fix, but does not address, is a system that sees people's suffering as an opportunity to make money. The ACA perpetuates that system.

That fundamental question has never been asked in the US:

Should people's suffering be seen and approached as an opportunity to make money??

If the answer to that question is no, then the entire American system is rubbish.

If the answer to that question is yes, then universality is a mirage and people will suffer on without care.

Unfortunately, the Republican answer to that question is yes. Don't have a pile of money? Got really sick? Tough - the undertaker's coffin store is that way - if you can afford that.

It is also unfortunate that the same immoral answer has crept over the border, and is driving up costs in Canada (we pay doctors at least 25% more than countries like Germany, and specialists something like 75% more).

[grammafreddy]

I like this lady. I think she's a lot smarter than the media makes you think she is.