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Whose Islam?

Re: Whose Islam?

Postby Atomoa » Nov 15th, 2013, 2:26 am

ifwisheswerehorses wrote:It is a belief of fear, ignorance and intolerance whose aim is to convert or decimate populations. That's hate.


Or that's the southern united states, but that doesn't count, right?
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Re: Whose Islam?

Postby ifwisheswerehorses » Nov 16th, 2013, 9:35 am

Atomoa wrote:
Or that's the southern united states, but that doesn't count, right?


Start another thread please since this is totally unrelated to the present topic.
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Re: Whose Islam?

Postby maryjane48 » Nov 16th, 2013, 10:21 am

ifwisheswerehorses wrote:Where are you finding hate?
Islam is what it is. Those that believe are perpetuating hate against all others by their actions or lack there of in deference to their own beliefs. It is a belief of fear, ignorance and intolerance whose aim is to convert or decimate populations. That's hate.

ok if you really believe that , then you have to include Christianity because it says same things, just in a different way , and they have killed how many in the name of the lord? thats my point here, if it just one sided , then imo it is a vendetta of some type
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Re: Whose Islam?

Postby steven lloyd » Nov 16th, 2013, 4:29 pm

lakevixen wrote: ok if you really believe that , then you have to include Christianity because it says same things, just in a different way ,

That may be true, but it should be noted there has not been much worry in the last hundred years or so, and certainly not in recent times today, of some fundamentalist Christian extremists hijacking airliners to fly into skyscrapers, execute chemical attacks on railway stations or walk into Wal-Mart wearing an explosive vest to be used in a suicide bombing. There is a subtle but otherwise noteworthy distinction here some folk are failing to recognize or acknowledge.

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Re: Whose Islam?

Postby Glacier » Nov 16th, 2013, 5:02 pm

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Re: Whose Islam?

Postby maryjane48 » Nov 17th, 2013, 10:17 am

That may be true, but it should be noted there has not been much worry in the last hundred years or so, and certainly not in recent times today, of some fundamentalist Christian extremists hijacking airliners to fly into skyscrapers, execute chemical attacks on railway stations or walk into Wal-Mart wearing an explosive vest to be used in a suicide bombing. There is a subtle but otherwise noteworthy distinction here some folk are failing to recognize or acknowledge.





yes , thats the way it has been since-humans invented gods, if you look back to the beginnings of mankind, we have always used gods of one form or another to kill each other.how long has the catholic church been allowing the child molesting priests operate for? its the same argument as do guns kill people or do people kill people?
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Re: Whose Islam?

Postby steven lloyd » Nov 17th, 2013, 10:30 am

I see you’re still missing the point
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Re: Whose Islam?

Postby Thinktank » Nov 18th, 2013, 11:47 am



listen to this - and learn something
Ukraine is broke, and undertook a war on that portion of the country that provided 30% of GDP. Now a draft, for an army, for a war, for a government that will - get this - implement IMF/EU *austerity*.
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Re: Whose Islam?

Postby logicalview » Nov 18th, 2013, 11:51 am

Thinktank wrote:listen to this - and learn something


LOL - how did I know you would pull George Galloway out of your butt at some point in this thread? No one will learn anything from that fraud and shyster, other than to see the true ugliness of frauds like Galloway, trying to make political hay out of the "I hate Israel" meme.

http://www.independent.co.uk/student/ne ... 81459.html
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Re: Whose Islam?

Postby logicalview » Nov 18th, 2013, 11:57 am

Glacier wrote:


I'm normally not a big fan of Bill Maher, but he's right on here. That "panel" he assembled was interesting, in that he's got a "who's who" of foolish liberals like Michael Moore, Al Sharpton and Valerie Plame, who all fell over themselves repeating the usual mantras of the Left whenever anyone mentions Islam in a negative light like "Other religions are just as bad" and then Moore goes to the old stand-by "We deserve everything we get". Just plain ridiculous.

I wonder what he'd say to these numbers:

Monthly Jihad Report
October, 2013

Jihad Attacks:
220
Countries:
23
Religions:
5
Dead Bodies:
1432
Critically Injured:
2890


Weekly Jihad Report
Nov 09 - Nov 15
Jihad Attacks:
34
Allahu Akbars*:
4
Dead Bodies:
170
Critically Injured:
425
*Suicide Attacks
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Re: Whose Islam?

Postby logicalview » Nov 18th, 2013, 12:01 pm

Human Rights vs. Public Safety
by Douglas Murray
November 18, 2013 at 5:00 am


Britain is unable to extradite people to their country of origin if they might face harm there. This means that the British police had to find some mechanism to keep a constant vigil on a small number of young men believed to be a potential threat to the British public.

In recent years, the British government has repeatedly been paying off terrorists before their cases could come to court. To keep state intelligence secret and avoid legal unpleasantness, there are quite a number of people in the UK who have been made jihadist millionaires.


It is what you could call the "perfect storm." At the beginning of this month, an al-Shabaab-trained terrorist nipped into a local mosque and escaped from police surveillance by escaping in a burka. His whereabouts are currently unknown, but since his escape it came out that he had been in the process of suing the British government for alleged "mistreatment" while he was busy fighting in Somalia.

Mohammed Ahmed Mohamed is his name, a 27 year old man of Somali origin, who was meant to be under a Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measure [TPIM] notice. These are the orders instituted by the British coalition government that are supposed to act as a slightly watered down version of the previous government's "Control Orders." The controversial Control Orders restricted an individual's movements if they were deemed to reach a high bar of potential threat. It allowed people involved in serious terrorist activities to be kept under surveillance before, after or in lieu of a conviction and imprisonment. By the admission of the Labour government, which instituted them, they were never the first, second or even third choice of weapon, but were made necessary because of the legal conundrum caused by hastily introduced European laws, which, for instance, make Britain unable to extradite people to their country of origin if they might face harm there. This means that Britain's police and security service had to find some mechanism to keep a constant vigil on a small number of young men believed to be a potential threat to the British public.

But Control Orders were regarded as slightly illiberal by the Liberal Democrat portion of the current coalition. So in a victory for Liberal Democrats, they succeeded in watering down some of the severest movement strictures of the Control Orders, and created the slightly foolish-sounding and slightly weaker TPIMs. It from this that young Mohamed has absconded and now disappeared. He is not the first. Last Christmas, Ibrahim Magag, who was also under a TPIM and – like Mohamed – connected to al-Shabaab, managed to escape surveillance by phoning a taxi and leaving his home. He is still missing.

Meanwhile, the mosque from which this latest suspect escaped from has been under some public – if not security – scrutiny in recent months because of its links to extremists. The An-Noor mosque in Acton, West London, was a place that Mohamed was allowed, even while under his TPIM, to go during the daytime. He had to report to the local police station each day and would then go to prayers and hang around at the mosque. What is striking is not just that this mosque is a known center for extremists, but that earlier this year one of the mosque's attendees, a man named Ali Almanasfi, was reportedly killed while fighting for al-Qaeda in Syria. That was in May, yet until his disappearance earlier this month this fact in no way altered the An-Noor mosque as one of the places Mohamed was allowed to visit.

That he chose to exit the mosque and then disappear while wearing a burka could also hardly be worse – or better – timed. In recent months the British public have learned of schools in Britain where girls are forced – by the school regulations – to wear the full face and body covering. And for this and other reasons the debate about the security risks of the burka has returned. Despite one of the failed London suicide bombers of July 21, 2005 having first escaped the capital in the covering, and the burka recently having been used by armed-robbers attacking a jewelery shop in London's Bond Street, the garment has still not been banned.

Britain has remained stuck on the question of where human rights meet public safety regarding this garb. Just last month, a judge in London heard the case of a failed asylum seeker and his 11 year old daughter who insisted that they could not be deported to France because the burka is banned there, and, if forced to move back to that country, the daughter's human rights would be affected. In September, a High Court judge was forced to rule on whether or not a woman facing charges could appear in court with her face fully covered. With this debate already at a fever-pitch, Mohamed's escape in the garment will probably add to the more than three quarters of the British public who now say they want to see the garment outlawed.

But of all the yet-to-be-felt repercussions of this latest absconding by a terrorist, perhaps the most serious come from the revelation that before his disappearance, young Mohamed was in the process of suing the British government. Again, he is not alone in using such freely available legal tools. That he applied for citizenship, was given it, joined a terrorist group and then used "infidel laws" to try to make some money makes him, more than anything else, part of a trend.

In recent years the British government – not least in the pay-offs for former Guantanamo detainees – has repeatedly attempted to stop the embarrassment of going through lengthy human rights cases by paying off terrorists before their cases could come to court. To keep state intelligence secret and avoid legal unpleasantness, there are quite a number of people in the UK who have been made jihadist millionaires. Young Mohamed claimed that the UK authorities were complicit in his torture in Somalia in 2011. And why shouldn't Mohamed have given such a claim a go? Like previous claimants, he had nothing to lose, and potentially millions to gain.

It is worth pointing out that although cases such as this sometimes depress the ordinary citizen, they that can also be found refreshing. It is cases such as this that could finally cause the apparently infinitely tolerant average British opinion to alter. And it is cases such as this that may eventually force our politicians – and if not this lot, then their successors – to discuss, and possibly change, things. That, then, will be the only real achievement in the life of Mohammed Ahmed Mohamed.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4056/ ... lic-safety
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Re: Whose Islam?

Postby logicalview » Nov 18th, 2013, 12:08 pm

Pakistani schools ban Malala's book, calling her 'tool of the West'

The Associated Press
Published Sunday, November 10, 2013 7:11AM EST
Last Updated Sunday, November 10, 2013 9:31AM EST

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan -- Pakistani education officials said Sunday that they have banned teenage activist Malala Yousafzai's book from private schools across the country, claiming it doesn't show enough respect for Islam and calling her a tool of the West.

Malala attracted global attention last year when the Taliban shot her in the head in northwest Pakistan for criticizing the group's interpretation of Islam, which limits girls' access to education. Her profile has risen steadily since then, and she released a memoir in October, "I Am Malala," that was co-written with British journalist Christina Lamb.

While Malala has become a hero to many across the world for opposing the Taliban and standing up for girls' education, conspiracy theories have flourished in Pakistan that her shooting was staged to create a hero for the West to embrace.

Pakistani schools ban Malala's book
Malala Yousafzai gestures as she speaks to an audience during a discussion of her book, 'I am Malala,' hosted by the John F. Kennedy Library and held at Boston College High School in Dorchester, Mass., Saturday, Oct. 12, 2013. (AP / Jessica Rinaldi)

Adeeb Javedani, president of the All Pakistan Private Schools Management Association, said his group banned Malala's book from the libraries of its 40,000 affiliated schools and called on the government to bar it from school curriculums.

"Everything about Malala is now becoming clear," Javedani said. "To me, she is representing the West, not us."

Kashif Mirza, the chairman of the All Pakistan Private Schools Federation, said his group also has banned Malala's book in its affiliated schools.

Malala "was a role model for children, but this book has made her controversial," Mirza said. "Through this book, she became a tool in the hands of the Western powers."

He said the book did not show enough respect for Islam because it mentioned Prophet Muhammad's name without using the abbreviation PUH -- "peace be upon him" -- as is customary in many parts of the Muslim world. He also said it spoke favourably of author Salman Rushdie, who angered many Muslims with his book "The Satanic Verses," and Ahmadis, members of a minority sect that have been declared non-Muslims under Pakistani law.

In her reference to Rushdie, Malala said in the book that her father saw "The Satanic Verses" as "offensive to Islam but believes strongly in the freedom of speech."

"First, let's read the book and then why not respond with our own book," the book quoted her father as saying.

Malala mentioned in the book that Pakistan's population of 180 million people includes more than 2 million Ahmadis, "who say they are Muslim though our government says they are not."

"Sadly those minority communities are often attacked," the book said, referring also to Pakistan's 2 million Christians.

The conspiracy theories around Malala reflect the level of influence that right-wing Islamists sympathetic to the Taliban have in Pakistan. They also reflect the poor state of education in Pakistan, where fewer than half the country's children ever complete a basic, primary education.

Millions of children attend private school throughout the country because of the poor state of the public system.

The Taliban blew up scores of schools and discouraged girls from getting an education when they took over the Swat Valley, where Malala lived, several years ago. The army staged a large ground offensive in Swat in 2009 that pushed many militants out of the valley, but periodic attacks still occur. The mastermind of the attack on Malala, Mullah Fazlullah, recently was appointed the new head of the Pakistani Taliban after the former chief was killed in a U.S. drone strike.


Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/pakistani-s ... z2l1uDcAHP
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Re: Whose Islam?

Postby Glacier » Nov 20th, 2013, 10:37 pm

logicalview wrote:I'm normally not a big fan of Bill Maher, but he's right on here.

Same. If a nutcase like Bill Maher can figure it out, one has to wonder some people are still in denial (and I'm not talking about the river in Egypt here).
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Re: Whose Islam?

Postby maryjane48 » Nov 21st, 2013, 4:22 pm

steven lloyd wrote:I see you’re still missing the point

no im not missing your point, your sayimg islam is the worry now compared to other faiths, personally im not into defending any faith, i dont believe in any god past or present . but my point is most of them still promoting hate and vengence, some more than others i would agree, but still they all guilty
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Re: Whose Islam?

Postby Atomoa » Nov 22nd, 2013, 2:57 am

Glacier wrote:Same. If a nutcase like Bill Maher can figure it out...


You don't agree with his views and call him a nutcase, but when he says something you agree with suddenly you use him as a calibration point of truth, lol. Some guy says that aliens are contacting him through a radio implanted in his teeth, but he likes Reaganomics! Proof!

Bill Maher is not a fan of any religion, he even made a movie about it.
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