Some US parents are just brain dead: read link

[my5cents]

Interesting, there was a follow-up by the media, speaking with some of the family of the Kaufmans. Apparently she had the one year old mid trip. (so the three year old [today] would have been two during the first leg of the trip)

The gist of the family's statement was that a conversation took place where the family stated "well I guess you'll have to put the balance of he trip on hold because of the baby", and they were surprised (the Kaufman's own family) that the Kaufmans intended to continue the trip with two children.

The question is, should we, as a society, prohibit, or sit by and let parents involve their children in activities that could be dangerous to the children.

We frown on mothers smoking or drinking while pregnant. We've heard of drug addicts being charged with endangering their unborn child.

Taking two toddlers on a 36 foot sail boat across the Pacific Ocean ? Huge ships get in trouble.

....and to -

I have a 2yr old granddaughter who has, in her short life, been to Mexico, England, spain and mallorca....granted, by flying...but if her parents were educated/experienced sailors and took her with them, I would have mo problem with it....in fact, I would like to go along!!

Certainly not dangerous trips, but just how much do you think your 2 year old granddaughter gained from these trips ? Now exchange travelling on commercial airlines to weeks and weeks in a 36 foot sail boat in the mid Pacific Ocean.

Reminiscent of the proud father who takes is three year old, at the annoyance to all who sit around him, to a NHL hockey game, so the boy (baby ?) can experience real NHL hockey. The baby, of course more interested in spilled popcorn on the floor and asleep before the puck is dropped for the second period.

Life is filled with risks, if, as parents, we can reduce the more risky avoidable ones, our children just may have a chance to see adulthood. Don't we have to look at the benefit vs the risk ?

If the parents were fleeing something and this was a necessary trip for that purpose, vs a challenging, adrenaline fueled, adventure for the parents. Perhaps get the adventures out of their system and then have children.

I wouldn't have taken my cat or dog on such a trip.

[LoneWolf_53]

The question is, should we, as a society, prohibit, or sit by and let parents involve their children in activities that could be dangerous to the children.

I don't know, do you or someone you know watch hockey?

Should I sit by, while you allow your child to have a hard rubber puck shot at them at 100mph or more, by people moving on razor sharp steel blades?

What's viewed as normal to you, may not be for someone else, so who gets to decide?

[my5cents]

I don't know, do you or someone you know watch hockey?

Should I sit by, while you allow your child to have a hard rubber puck shot at them at 100mph or more, by people moving on razor sharp steel blades?

What's viewed as normal to you, may not be for someone else, so who gets to decide?

You're right that by degree what some allow their children to do wouldn't be allowed by other parents, but at some point what the parents allow has to be restricted by society if the parents don't have the common sense to do so themselves.

As for hockey,,, what have we done about youth hockey ? Lots of protection afforded by their equipment, no body checking under a certain age.

As for 100 mph or more hockey pucks ? I gather you don't watch children playing hockey.

We group our children by age, thus we don't have very many 9 year olds playing in the NHL, getting hit with 100 mph or more, hockey pucks.

Are you really trying to compare youth playing hockey to a one year old and a three year old in a 36 foot boat for months in the mid Pacific ?

[LoneWolf_53]

Are you really trying to compare youth playing hockey to a one year old and a three year old in a 36 foot boat for months in the mid Pacific ?

No I'm simply demonstrating, that though I personally don't care for hockey, it doesn't give me the right to call you brain dead if you do support it and allow your kids to play it.

Brain dead would be driving while drunk with ones children in the car, applying makeup while talking on cell phone and driving with three kids in the car (yes I've seen this), smoking like a chimney with your kids in the car, etc.

Not sharing someone else's sense of adventure, which doesn't fit into your box of how things should be, hardly gives you the right to become judge and jury.

Now on the other hand, if the parents had just purchased the boat yesterday, and had no clue of how to handle a boat, or navigate the ocean, then I'd agree that they were brain dead. That is not the case here however, and whether their families are on side with their choices is neither here nor there really.

For all you know they might all be afraid of water, making their opinions extremely biased and worthless.

[Xia33]

Certainly not dangerous trips, but just how much do you think your 2 year old granddaughter gained from these trips ? Now exchange travelling on commercial airlines to weeks and weeks in a 36 foot sail boat in the mid Pacific Ocean.

Reminiscent of the proud father who takes is three year old, at the annoyance to all who sit around him, to a NHL hockey game, so the boy (baby ?) can experience real NHL hockey. The baby, of course more interested in spilled popcorn on the floor and asleep before the puck is dropped for the second period.

Life is filled with risks, if, as parents, we can reduce the more risky avoidable ones, our children just may have a chance to see adulthood. Don't we have to look at the benefit vs the risk ?

If the parents were fleeing something and this was a necessary trip for that purpose, vs a challenging, adrenaline fueled, adventure for the parents. Perhaps get the adventures out of their system and then have children.

I wouldn't have taken my cat or dog on such a trip.

Actually, my granddaughter learned that there was an ocean....that the waves could knock her down (she still talks about it and the sea shells she has), she came back saying "muchas gracias" and loves to fly...in fact it is difficult to get her off a plane without a little hissy fit. She watched spanish dancing....and copies it and wants the same dresses....so, yes, I do believe she got a lot from those trips, especially Spain and Mallorca because she was just under 2 when we all went.
So far as these people being "weeks and weeks in a 36 ft sailboat in the middle of the Pacific"...number one, that sailboat is likely better equipped than some people's homes.....they do not spend weeks and weeks in the middle of the ocean....they stop at many ports in many countries and may do a couple or three days on the water at a time depending on the weather(and likely pull in to a calm bay or cove for the nights) and other considerations.... Do some research before posting things that are misleading.
"a challenging, adrenaline fueled, adventure for the parents. Perhaps get the adventures out of their system and then have children."
Sailing and being on the sea does not have to be challenging and/or adrenaline fueled. It can be the most relaxing, quiet, peaceful trip....but crap happens in every activity you could name. Because you fear something, doesn't mean you should judge those that think differently, or try to stop parents from travelling with their children in whatever way they choose. Most importantly, they are WITH their children and whether you believe it or not those children are learning and experiencing life to the fullest extent WITH the love and care of their parents....more than you can say, in all reality, for some kids raised in what you would consider a "normal" way.
Yes, life is definitely full of risks, on that we can agree....but it would seem ONLY that. lol It is the attitude to protect all people from everything at all costs that has gotten society into a hole, imo.

[Xia33]

just for the record, THIS is what the sister/family said:

Charlotte Kaufman's sister, Sariah Kay English, said that when she first heard of the couple's plans to sail around the world with two children, "I thought it was nuts."
But English said the couple was always careful. Eric Kaufman is a Coast Guard-licensed captain who introduced sailing to Charlotte Kaufman during one of their early dates.

"They were not going into this blind. I knew they were doing this wisely," English said.

English said the couple made a network of friends who traveled around the globe with children and always stocked the sailboat with more food than they need.

"They were very overcautious. They're not new at sailing," English said. Unfortunately, "sickness sometimes happens."

[Xia33]

The question is, should we, as a society, prohibit, or sit by and let parents involve their children in activities that could be dangerous to the children.

Every day, children are at risk...riding bikes, boating, climbing stairs, playing hockey, riding broncs (16 yr old just killed in a freak accident), riding horses and the list goes on and on......so, Who is to decide what and when to "prohibit"? And I would really like to know how on earth you think that would and/or, more importantly, could be enforced and at what cost to you, as a taxpayer. Huge stretch of the imagination and I, for one, would not want to live in a society like that.....oh...forgot, won't have to come fall! Lolol
IMO "society" needs to take a pill and relax a little....

[LoneWolf_53]

Actually, my granddaughter learned that there was an ocean....that the waves could knock her down (she still talks about it and the sea shells she has), she came back saying "muchas gracias" and loves to fly...in fact it is difficult to get her off a plane without a little hissy fit. She watched spanish dancing....and copies it and wants the same dresses....so, yes, I do believe she got a lot from those trips, especially Spain and Mallorca because she was just under 2 when we all went.
So far as these people being "weeks and weeks in a 36 ft sailboat in the middle of the Pacific"...number one, that sailboat is likely better equipped than some people's homes.....they do not spend weeks and weeks in the middle of the ocean....they stop at many ports in many countries and may do a couple or three days on the water at a time depending on the weather(and likely pull in to a calm bay or cove for the nights) and other considerations.... Do some research before posting things that are misleading.
"a challenging, adrenaline fueled, adventure for the parents. Perhaps get the adventures out of their system and then have children."
Sailing and being on the sea does not have to be challenging and/or adrenaline fueled. It can be the most relaxing, quiet, peaceful trip....but crap happens in every activity you could name. Because you fear something, doesn't mean you should judge those that think differently, or try to stop parents from travelling with their children in whatever way they choose. Most importantly, they are WITH their children and whether you believe it or not those children are learning and experiencing life to the fullest extent WITH the love and care of their parents....more than you can say, in all reality, for some kids raised in what you would consider a "normal" way.
Yes, life is definitely full of risks, on that we can agree....but it would seem ONLY that. lol It is the attitude to protect all people from everything at all costs that has gotten society into a hole, imo.

Very very well stated! 100/100

[my5cents]

LoneWolf_53 Stated :
No I'm simply demonstrating, that though I personally don't care for hockey, it doesn't give me the right to call you brain dead if you do support it and allow your kids to play it.

I'm confused you say "I personally don't care for hockey". What has liking something got to do with allowing a child to be exposed to serious danger ?

Brain dead would be driving while drunk with ones children in the car, applying makeup while talking on cell phone and driving with three kids in the car (yes I've seen this), smoking like a chimney with your kids in the car, etc.

Also, the term "brain dead" ? You've used it twice. Are you suggesting I said that ?

Not sharing someone else's sense of adventure, which doesn't fit into your box of how things should be, hardly gives you the right to become judge and jury.

Oh, no, I fully support your right to do as many stupid things as you want. I don't support you taking you kid along. (What judge and jury has to do with it, I have no idea)

Now on the other hand, if the parents had just purchased the boat yesterday, and had no clue of how to handle a boat, or navigate the ocean, then I'd agree that they were brain dead. That is not the case here however, and whether their families are on side with their choices is neither here nor there really.

For all you know they might all be afraid of water, making their opinions extremely biased and worthless.

I think the fact that the father is a captain, makes it worse, not better. He knows, or should know, the dangers involved. All the knowledge and expertise in the world doesn't make up for the serious risks that are faced by occupants of a 36 foot boat in the open Pacific. It's dangerous enough when a crew of adults are in this situation that are trained to all do their jobs vs a small vessel with two children aboard that, in an emergency will need assistance.

Xia33 Stated :
Every day, children are at risk...riding bikes, boating, climbing stairs, playing hockey, riding broncs (16 yr old just killed in a freak accident), riding horses and the list goes on and on......so,

Nice argument, we are discussing crossing the Pacific in a 36 foot boat with a one year old and a three year old, and you slide in "riding bikes", "climbing stairs" etc. ?

Who is to decide what and when to "prohibit"? And I would really like to know how on earth you think that would and/or, more importantly, could be enforced and at what cost to you, as a taxpayer.

We don't have parenting police searching for irresponsible parents. The punishment and consequences to the parent(s) and sadly the child comes after the damage is done. It's called "Reckless Endangerment".

The question here is "Where should a parent draw the line ?". You have tried to lessen the point by ridiculous comparisons between crossing the ocean in a 36 foot boat to regular daily activities.

So,, crossing the ocean is OK, is sky diving ? How about a car seat in a stock car ?

[Beerhunter341]

How about a move to Surrey? 23 murders there last year. Seems like a bit of a risk to move there. Quite possibly riskier than this boat ride.

[Xia33]

Nice argument, we are discussing crossing the Pacific in a 36 foot boat with a one year old and a three year old, and you slide in "riding bikes", "climbing stairs" etc. ?

No...I..me...am discussing parents putting children in danger and the "irresponsible" parents, and who is it up to to judge them and/or what constitutes "dangerous activities" and "irresponsible parents". AND the following:

"The question is, should we, as a society, prohibit, or sit by and let parents involve their children in activities that could be dangerous to the children."

As far as the following statement goes, I would say it is up to the parent, not anyone else, unless they are breaking the law...and children are involved in potentially dangerous activities every day, some with zero parental support and care....and children die from seemingly safe, secure activities such as camping with grandparents...s**t happens! every day!

"The question here is "Where should a parent draw the line ?". You have tried to lessen the point by ridiculous comparisons between crossing the ocean in a 36 foot boat to regular daily activities."


"You're right that by degree what some allow their children to do wouldn't be allowed by other parents, but at some point what the parents allow has to be restricted by society if the parents don't have the common sense to do so themselves."

I think society has no right to restrict anything...those with narrow minds and fears of the big bad world have done enough and, I am sure, are not done yet.....

[Xia33]

Society is not made up of "like minded" people. You are totally entitled to your opinions, as is every single other human being. Some have the ability to look beyond their noses, others snub their noses, and, as always, some stick their noses where they don't belong.
Some things will never change.

[WhatThe]

I'm curious as to what knowledge or experience the two naysayers have to deem sailing as "dangerous" and "reckless" and "endangerment".
I mean, do you guys have any sailing or boating experience at all and understand what's involved? How it can be extremely safe when properly equipped/trained?

[my5cents]

As far as the following statement goes, I would say it is up to the parent, not anyone else, unless they are breaking the law...and children are involved in potentially dangerous activities every day, some with zero parental support and care....and children die from seemingly safe, secure activities such as camping with grandparents...s**t happens! every day!

"unless they are breaking the law", well isn't that the discussion ? At some point, allowing your children to be exposed to some type of activity breaks the law. The question at hand is, "Does taking your one year old and three year old sailing across the Pacific on a 36 foot boat constitute "Reckless Endangerment" ?

We're not talking about the dangers inherent in normal day to day living, but yes, when seemly safe activities can and have resulted in deaths and injuries to children, it illustrates how ridiculous it is for a parent to allow children to partake in activities that are dangerous.

As adults we have the "right" if want to call it that, to partake in dangerous activities. But the parents of infants who don't have the skills to make decisions on their own don't have the right to make that decision for those infants. We place an onus on parents to keep their children from inherent danger. It's the basics of parenting, even in the animal kingdom.

I think society has no right to restrict anything...those with narrow minds and fears of the big bad world have done enough and, I am sure, are not done yet.....

"no right to restrict anything" ? Well if you're looking for a society that has no right to restrict anything, you're living in the wrong country.

[Glacier]

My ancestors came over the Mayflower. Some of the 1 year olds didn't make it. No one called them brain dead parents.


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Life is inherently risky. There is only one big risk you should avoid at all costs, and that is the risk of doing nothing. – Denis Waitley

When you play it too safe, you’re taking the biggest risk of your life. Time is the only wealth we’re given. – Barbara Sher

He who risks and fails can be forgiven. He who never risks and never fails is a failure in his whole being. – Paul Tillich

The knowledge of the world is only to be acquired in the world, and not in a closet. – Philip Dormer Stanhope Chesterfield

"If there is no risk, there is no reward.” – Christy Raedeke