ISIS declares Islamic state

[steven lloyd]

The Pentagon says two U.S. fighter jets dropped bombs on Islamic militants in Iraq towing artillery outside Irbil near U.S. personnel.

Pentagon press secretary Rear Adm. John Kirby says two F/A-18 jets dropped 500-pound bombs on a piece of artillery and the truck towing it.

President Barack Obama authorized such airstrikes Thursday when the Islamic state militant group advanced on Irbil, in northeaster Iraq, where U.S. military trainers are stationed.

http://www.castanet.net/edition/news-st ... htm#120614

[Poindexter]

The US is being forced for humanitarian reasons to pick sides in a tribal war providing more fuel for the jihadist's mantra. And Maliki is to blame.

Maliki has taken a relatively strong national defense that cost the US billions and turned it into a money making scheme selling positions of leadership over battalions for a million dollars to his cronies. He's taken what was a tribally balanced national defense and turned it into a Shia militia. A bad one at that.

Maliki should be made to pay a price for his actions and Sunni's receive some form of justice. Only then will they stop supporting groups like ISIS and the Taliban before that with an endless supply of men willing to die on gods behalf.

ISIS is now the richest and best armed extremist group in the world and Maliki and his cronies along with US negligence are to blame.

[hobbyguy]

The more you dig into ISIS, and what is really going on, some old questions arise, and some new ones.

Remember when the US line under Bush was that the Iraqi people would welcome them as "liberators"? Didn't happen - with some minority exceptions. Perhaps the Iraqi people knew that without a thug like Sadam to control things, their country would spin out of control.

So now we see another group of thugs seizing power. That seems to be the path elsewhere - such as Libya - where thugs have been deposed in the region. All of these groups claim religious authority, but then so did the kings of Europe when they fought 100s of years of wars. That begs the question as to whether or not you can "leap the steps" in building a democracy. Our own path to the level of democracy we have is littered with wars and atrocities.

As I suggest on another forum thread, we better get used to the idea of no access to middle east oil. That might wind up as a silver lining for us, forcing us away from oil - which is too slow to happen just because we conceptually know that is what we should do.

I wonder what happens when ISIS tries to cross the borders into Jordan, or Saudi Arabia, or Turkey? They are already pushing the envelope into Lebanon.

Reminds me time and again that I "won the birth lottery" to be here in BC.

[logicalview]

I wonder what happens when ISIS tries to cross the borders into Jordan, or Saudi Arabia, or Turkey? .

They'd be biting the hand that is currently feeding them if they did that. It would be like Hamas invading Qatar.

[hobbyguy]

Exactly - but not so much in the case of Turkey or Jordan.

That's why I suggest having the Saudis and crew be forced to "wear" the problems in west-central Iraq. To a very large extent the Saudis and crew are responsible for the rise of ISIS, they are the ones who nurtured such groups. Having sown the seeds, they should be the ones to reap the harvest.

It is pointless for the west to become too deeply involved as long as the Saudis and crew are funding and arming such groups. Hem them in though. Try to make Kurdistan, Turkey, Shiite Iraq, and Jordan "hard targets" by providing air support. That leaves ISIS with only one easy move - south west and into Saudi Arabia.

Perhaps that might teach the Saudis and crew to stop messing about with terrorists.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world_/2014/06/16/the_saudis_helped_create_a_monster_they_can_t_control_in_iraq.html

http://hidayaresearch.com/european-parliaments-report-on-the-roots-of-global-terrorism/

[Poindexter]

IMO the horrific you tube video "A message to America" is the Pearl Harbor of this war. If the US wanted to remain a third party providing only air strikes there is no way it can now. The White House is calling it the first act of terrorism against the US from isis paving the way for escalated US involvement. If they thought this beheading would scare the US they don't know our neighbors to the south very well.

[the truth]

the usa, should keep doing ,what they have been , bomb isis from the air and do not stop

[Glacier]

This is getting totally out of hand. Here is an interesting view??????????

http://www.youtube.com/embed/Ry3NzkAOo3s?rel=0

I believe there is a lot of truth in what she said.

If there are so many good Muslims and I believe there are, I know lots, should they not be speaking out stronger and taking action.

Very good response.

_______________________________________________
There are many moderate Muslims, but there is no such thing as moderate Islam.
~ Geert Wilders

[Queen K]

Know what? When I go to CNN on facebook and read the news about ISIS etc. I ALWAYS make comments such as the following:

Where are they? The supposed billions of people we are told are Muslims of this "peaceful religion." Should they not be organizing protests against the actrocities being committed by ISIS? By so many others too? Where are the protests? The outrage of these people hi jacking their religion and murdering people like this. So many not rising up is suspicious to me."

I've written so many words to similiar effect that I wonder who's reading them and who cares.

One guy from Cairo Egypt did a friend request but honestly, if he sees my Western page with hair uncovered and clothing not conforming to the Hajib and cover up, I don't know what would happen. I didn't want to risk it. Too many wackos there. My neighbour was there teaching English and he just escaped their revolution, said it's become crazy there.

And what of those nuts in Norway who are demanding a break away Islamic State within Norway? Yes it's happening.

[FreeRights]

The more you dig into ISIS, and what is really going on, some old questions arise, and some new ones.

Remember when the US line under Bush was that the Iraqi people would welcome them as "liberators"? Didn't happen - with some minority exceptions. Perhaps the Iraqi people knew that without a thug like Sadam to control things, their country would spin out of control.

So now we see another group of thugs seizing power. That seems to be the path elsewhere - such as Libya - where thugs have been deposed in the region. All of these groups claim religious authority, but then so did the kings of Europe when they fought 100s of years of wars. That begs the question as to whether or not you can "leap the steps" in building a democracy. Our own path to the level of democracy we have is littered with wars and atrocities.

As I suggest on another forum thread, we better get used to the idea of no access to middle east oil. That might wind up as a silver lining for us, forcing us away from oil - which is too slow to happen just because we conceptually know that is what we should do.

I wonder what happens when ISIS tries to cross the borders into Jordan, or Saudi Arabia, or Turkey? They are already pushing the envelope into Lebanon.

Reminds me time and again that I "won the birth lottery" to be here in BC.

Well, I don't think that's entirely accurate without context. True, there wasn't a massive uprising when the US forces entered Iraq, but that was due to a few other issues than disinterest. For one, the Coalition forces essentially disbanded the Iraqi military and police forces - thousands of people, trained and proficient with firearms, were without jobs. Many of them joined with insurgent groups and joined the fighting elsewhere in the Middle East to earn money to provide those resources to their family. The other issue is that the Coalition forces were unable to provide security to every town and city in the country, and the extremists were well rooted in their communities. A family could not afford to "revolt" to the side of the Coalition without risk of violence or death because appropriate security was not available.

The fact is, this is a war that is better fought with drones and with specific assassinations than it is with armies and bombs. There is no enemy "army" and the casualty rate will reflect that of a hostage situation - regular people are mixed with the enemy.

[Smurf]

Queen K wrote:

Know what? When I go to CNN on facebook and read the news about ISIS etc. I ALWAYS make comments such as the following:

Where are they? The supposed billions of people we are told are Muslims of this "peaceful religion." Should they not be organizing protests against the actrocities being committed by ISIS? By so many others too? Where are the protests? The outrage of these people hi jacking their religion and murdering people like this. So many not rising up is suspicious to me."

I've written so many words to similiar effect that I wonder who's reading them and who cares.

One guy from Cairo Egypt did a friend request but honestly, if he sees my Western page with hair uncovered and clothing not conforming to the Hajib and cover up, I don't know what would happen. I didn't want to risk it. Too many wackos there. My neighbour was there teaching English and he just escaped their revolution, said it's become crazy there.

And what of those nuts in Norway who are demanding a break away Islamic State within Norway? Yes it's happening.

I am suspicious too, but we have to remember this is all based on religion, fanatical religion. These people kill anyone that doesn't agree with them. There are so many different groups involved. If you are a member of the group doing this then you keep quiet because you basically want them in power even if they are radical. Don't tip the apple cart. If you are a member of any other faction then you keep quiet and hope to live OR you better have enough strong friends to win the battle. It is a mess. You have radicals who have zero respect for life, especially if you disagree with them in any way.

I cannot believe that people leave countries like Canada, Britain, the US etc. to join these groups. What is in peoples minds? What kind of lost souls are they finding to recruit?

[the truth]

mental health soles,and young angry men coming out of prison,stats in france show half of there prison population are muslim men ,who they say are recruiting and turning local french men to join there cause,same thing in the us prisons going on

[Woodenhead]

http://www.theignorantfishermen.com/2011/04/islam-explained-in-laymans-terms.html

ISLAM IN LAYMAN TERMS

Here is a perspective by Dr. Peter Hammond.

Dr. Hammond's doctorate is in Theology. He was born in Capetown in 1960, grew up in Rhodesia and converted to Christianity in 1977.
Adapted from
Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat:
Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult. In its fullest form, it is a complete, total, 100% system of life.
Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military components. The religious component is a beard for all of the other components.

Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious privileges.

When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious privileges, some of the other components tend to creep in as well..

Here's how it works:

As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving
minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:
United States -- Muslim 0..6%
Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
China -- Muslim 1.8%
Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
Norway -- Muslim 1.8%

At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs.
This is happening in:
Denmark -- Muslim 2%
Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
Spain -- Muslim 4%
Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%

From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population.
For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims.
They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply.

This is occurring in:
France -- Muslim 8%
Philippines -- 5%
Sweden -- Muslim 5%
Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world.

When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions.
In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam , with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam.
Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in:
Guyana -- Muslim 10%
India -- Muslim 13.4%
Israel -- Muslim 16%
Kenya -- Muslim 10%
Russia -- Muslim 15%

After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues,
such as in:

Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%

At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and on going militia warfare,
such as in:

Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
Chad -- Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%

From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels,
such as in:

Albania -- Muslim 70%
Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
Sudan -- Muslim 70%

After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim,
such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:

Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
Egypt -- Muslim 90%
Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
Iran -- Muslim 98%
Iraq -- Muslim 97%
Jordan -- Muslim 92%
Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan -- Muslim 97%
Palestine -- Muslim 99%
Syria -- Muslim 90%
Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
Turkey -- Muslim 99..8%
United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%

100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace.. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word,
such as in:

Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%
Somalia -- Muslim 100%
Yemen -- Muslim 100%

Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.

'Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; the tribe against the world, and all of us against the infidel. -- Leon Uris, 'The Haj'

It is important to understand that in some countries, with well under 100% Muslim populations, such as France, the minority Muslim populations live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they live by Sharia Law.
The national police do not even enter these ghettos. There are no national courts, nor schools, nor non-Muslim religious facilities. In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. The children attend madrasses. They learn only the Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable with death.
Therefore, in some areas of certain nations, Muslim Imams and extremists exercise more power than the national average would indicate.

Today's 1.5 billion Muslims make up 22% of the world's population. But their birth rates dwarf the birth rates of Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, and all other believers.
Muslims will exceed 50% of the world's population by the end of this century.

Not that I agree or not. It's just an interesting view.

[the truth]

that about couvers the truth

[hobbyguy]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/iraq-crisis-how-saudi-arabia-helped-isis-take-over-the-north-of-the-country-9602312.html

A fairly lengthy read. Some key excerpts:

"Prince Bandar told him: "The time is not far off in the Middle East, Richard, when it will be literally 'God help the Shia'. More than a billion Sunnis have simply had enough of them."

"He does not doubt that substantial and sustained funding from private donors in Saudi Arabia and Qatar, to which the authorities may have turned a blind eye, has played a central role in the Isis surge into Sunni areas of Iraq. He said: "Such things simply do not happen spontaneously." This sounds realistic since the tribal and communal leadership in Sunni majority provinces is much beholden to Saudi and Gulf paymasters, and would be unlikely to cooperate with Isis without their consent."

"Shia see the threat as not only military but stemming from the expanded influence over mainstream Sunni Islam of Wahhabism, the puritanical and intolerant version of Islam espoused by Saudi Arabia that condemns Shia and other Islamic sects as non-Muslim apostates and polytheists."

"they are convinced that there "can be no legitimate or admissible challenge to the Islamic purity of their Wahhabi credentials as guardians of Islam's holiest shrines". But, perhaps more significantly given the deepening Sunni-Shia confrontation, the Saudi belief that they possess a monopoly of Islamic truth leads them to be "deeply attracted towards any militancy which can effectively challenge Shia-dom".

"Saudi sympathy for anti-Shia "militancy" is identified in leaked US official documents. The then US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton wrote in December 2009 in a cable released by Wikileaks that "Saudi Arabia remains a critical financial support base for al-Qa'ida, the Taliban, LeT [Lashkar-e-Taiba in Pakistan] and other terrorist groups."

"A striking example of double standards by the western powers was the Saudi-backed suppression of peaceful democratic protests by the Shia majority in Bahrain in March 2011. Some 1,500 Saudi troops were sent across the causeway to the island kingdom as the demonstrations were ended with great brutality and Shia mosques and shrines were destroyed."

"The rise of Isis is bad news for the Shia of Iraq but it is worse news for the Sunni whose leadership has been ceded to a pathologically bloodthirsty and intolerant movement, a sort of Islamic Khmer Rouge, which has no aim but war without end."

Within that are some answers to questions. Note what happens to the muslim people of Bahrain when they protested. Wahhabism is not all of Islam, as Lev Tahor is not all of Judaism. If you were the Shia Iranians, and you knew what the Saudi Wahhabis were up to, wouldn't you want nuclear weapons?

The problem is not Islam, it is Wahhabism and Saudi Arabia. The monarchy in Saudi Arabia made an unholy alliance with the Wahhabis to cement their power. The Saudis and other gulf states keep gobs of money flowing to the likes of Isis. Is it Isis or the Saudis that want a "caliphate"? Are the Saudis playing the game of trying to use Wahhabis and the offshoot Jihadis to control all the mid-east, and then what? Into Europe? They are already in Africa. They will make sure that any form democratic government in Tunisia and Libya has no chance.

So what is the solution? Unfortunately, the only way to stop the flow of money to the Wahhabi lead terrorists is to sanction Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait etc.

That would mean doing without the bulk of mid east oil and gas.

That may be the price of defending our democracies...and one that is inevitable, whether we choose to do it, or the evolving circumstances force it on us.

The Saudis are losing control. Their movement of 30,000 troops to their border with Iraq is a strong indication of that, as is the urging by the Saudis for western powers to make a concerted effort to get rid of Isis. But as Hagel, Kerry and Obama have repeated, there is no military solution.

Saudi Wahhabism has started a wild fire. Oil money is the fuel for the fire.