Putin - More dangerous than ISIS? Another Hitler?

[steven lloyd]

Putin could invade Ukraine in two days and own the whole country if he wanted.

if USA warmongers supply weapons to Ukraine, the war could last forever ... .

But very unlikely (I hope I don’t regret this) as the most likely response by Putin in that scenario is to threaten the US (and Canada) to back off. As supplying weapons will not sway the conflict other than to make it more bloody, the US and Canada (under our Commander in Chief, Herr Harper) may get it into their heads to supply troops (Harper has already mused on this) and large ground weapons. At this point Putin will ultimately deliver his last ultimatum, "back off or this is going to full scale war and I am not ruling out the use of nuclear weapons". One way or the other the war will not last long after that.

[Smurf]

You "think" Putin could do better in the Ukraine than they did in Afghanistan? Probably but only because the Ukrainians would not hide behind masks, women, children, church's, hospitals, etc. like the cowardly Islamic terrorists do. War doesn't always go the way you want. Ask the Russians, Germans, US and many others.

I just hope that Putin has enough brains not to push the button on the big one because there will probably be no winner.

[Poindexter]

There is danger in demonizing Putin. Cooler rational heads need to prevail but when you start believing you're up against the Antichrist overreaction due to self righteousness is the eventual outcome.

[Merry]

Nobody wants a war; hopefully not even Putin. But that said, what should the West do if Putin succeeds in annexing Ukraine and then turns his sights on one of the Nato aligned countries? Tear up our agreements with those countries, or take a stand?

While I realize that in this nuclear world of ours that the stakes are higher than they were back in the thirties, the situation has a lot of parallels, and human nature has not changed whether we are nuclear armed or not. People didn't want to go to war back then either; they had just finished a terrible "war to end all wars" only a few years earlier, and public sentiment was in favour of compromise not more war. But it didn't work. All appeasement did was embolden Hitler to annex more and more land, in the belief that the West would not do anything concrete to stop him. There are many historians who believe that if the rest of Europe had stood up to Hitler in the beginning, the Second World War would never have happened.

Economic sanctions don't always work either. America tried using economic sanctions against Japan to try to get them to stop their aggression against China, and all it resulted in was Japan declaring war on the U.S. by bombing Pearl Harbour. Which is a reminder that sometimes, if you back someone into a corner far enough they will come out fighting.

I remember when Regan was in power and doing a lot of "sabre rattling" that many of us (including me) were afraid he'd trigger another world war. But what actually happened was the end of the cold war, and a period of relatively good relations with Russia. A good example I believe of how peace is more likely to grow from a position of strength, than a position of weakness.

[steven lloyd]

... a reminder that sometimes, if you back someone into a corner far enough they will come out fighting.

Something our leaders (?) would be well-advised to consider before thinking Putin can be pushed around. The biggest problem I see here is people's willingness to assume Putin will not engage in escalating military action if pushed by NATO and the west. Germany and France both understand this. Perhaps at some point they will have to address the USA and our own soldier wannabe Harper and say "Thanks for your help but we'll take it from here". "No, really - thanks. Please leave now".


eta: It would also be good to remember that Putin is not Gorbechev.

[jimmy4321]

Who will succeed Putin if he chokes on a pretzel or slips in the shower? He's a nutcase maybe there's a better option.

[Smurf]

Worse yet, what if he is away worse. Doubt if we have to bring she into the equation in Russia.

[Poindexter]

Say Quebec had separated from Canada to form a sovereign nation with large portions that still spoke English and were still loyal to Canada. Now say a corrupt government took over Quebec that represented only the French speaking population making the country ripe for a civil war. What would Canada do if there was the potential for many lives lost among those who still feel an allegiance to Canada?. Would the Canadian government sit on their hands or step in to defend the English? Now consider a foreign nation picks the French side of the battle and started supplying them with arms. Do you think we may see things differently?

[Captain Awesome]

what should the West do if Putin succeeds in annexing Ukraine

How about ... stop provoking the guy with nuclear weapons by staging a violent government overthrow followed by a civil war next to their border just for the sake of weakening Russia by taking yet another country out of their sphere of influence? How about stop going around the world and starting "revolutions" with the sole purpose of installing puppet regimes loyal to United States. Syria, Egypt, Ukraine, Georgia, Iraq, Afghanistan...when will it stop?

[Merry]

How about ... stop provoking the guy with nuclear weapons by staging a violent government overthrow followed by a civil war next to their border just for the sake of weakening Russia by taking yet another country out of their sphere of influence? How about stop going around the world and starting "revolutions" with the sole purpose of installing puppet regimes loyal to United States. Syria, Egypt, Ukraine, Georgia, Iraq, Afghanistan...when will it stop?

For the sake of argument let's assume that the West backs off completely and allows Russia to annex Ukraine. What if, following that, Putin decides to test the waters even further and try annexing one of his Nato allied neighbours? Should the West ignore that as well? How much do you propose the West ignore before they decide to take a stand? When Putin reaches the English Channel? Just wondering.

[Poindexter]

[ What if, following that, Putin decides to test the waters even further and try annexing one of his Nato allied neighbours?

"What if" being the keys words in your post. You ready to start a war based on "what if's"?

This is the danger of demonizing Putin that I referred to earlier. It would be a mistake to fill in the blanks on behalf of Putin and blame him for everything while ignoring the history and ethnic make up of the region.

[Poindexter]

I ask those who want foreign militarily involvement, what victory would look like? Even if after a bloody war Putin is somehow kicked out of the Ukraine, which is extremely unlikely. But lets say the US and it's allies manage to do this. What are you left with aside from Cold War 2.0? A Ukraine that is still divided between allegiances with civil war all but assured once the troops leave. The exact same outcome as the Iraqi invasion which bares the question, are we really that incapable of learning from our mistakes?

[Captain Awesome]

What if, following that, Putin decides to test the waters even further and try annexing one of his Nato allied neighbours? Should the West ignore that as well?

The whole Ukraine mess was caused by the West. If US didn't decide to install yet another puppet regime and thus take out Ukraine out of Russia's sphere of influence, none of this would ever happen. People of Crimea wouldn't not use this moment to proclaim independence, and Russia wouldn't be happy to accommodate and protect them. US caused this knowing it would result in a bloody civil war AND a political stand off with Russia.

You keep asking "What if Russia do this again?". Well, it all depends if US keeps doing what they've been doing - going around the world and installing puppet regimes, causing civil wars and millions of casualties just for the sake of weakening other countries and strengthening their economy. Just for the sake of world peace, I hope US knocks it off and we can enjoy good relations between our countries. But something tells me next president of US will be even worse than Nobel prize winner for world peace, and will push the world into WW3.

[SheilaO]

The latest poll has shown that 85 percent of Russian citizens trust President Vladimir Putin and 74 percent say they would vote for him if presidential elections were held next weekend.

The poll, conducted by the Public Opinion Foundation on February 7-8 and released on February 13, shows that the current 85 percent trust rating is up from 75 percent in February 2014. The share of those who said they were ready to vote for Putin was also up from 45 percent one year ago.



84 percent of those polled said they approved of Putin’s work as president and only 7 percent admitted they were discontented with it.

The general attitude toward Putin was also mostly positive – 75 percent of Russians said they sympathized with their leader. Fourteen percent said they had both positive and negative sentiments about him and 7 percent reported that their attitude to the president was purely negative.

Other politicians’ ratings remained generally unchanged. Five percent of respondents said that if presidential polls were to be held next Sunday they would vote for the head of the populist-nationalist LDPR party, Vladimir Zhirinovsky. Four percent pledged support to the head of the Russian Communist Party, Gennadiy Zyuganov and 1 percent said they would vote for billionaire Mikhail Prokhorov, the founder of the pro-business party Civil Platform.

The head of the Russian Institute of Socio-Economic and Political Research, Dmitry Badovskiy, connected the new surge in Putin’s ratings with Russia’s strong position on the Ukrainian crisis and personal diplomatic success of the president demonstrated at this week’s summit in Minsk. Another factor was people’s hope for Putin’s ability to cope with the ongoing economic crisis and return stability to the national economy.

According to the expert, the results of the research mean that in the conditions of a real presidential election, Putin would win with a result approaching 90 percent.

So??? What are you saying...
Hitler's popularity soared when he annexed Sudentendland. Hitler's popularity soared even further when he called for the extermination of Jews...

The popularity of ultra-nationalist leaders like Hitler and Putin tend to soar in times of war... Like Russia, Germany was a loser country - Germans would have to cart money by the wheelbarrow before Hitler assumed power...

[SheilaO]

why would he think the war would be a short one?

Sadistic warmongers can keep a war going for decades, enjoying the deaths they see every day.

Putin can be referred to as THE sadistic warmonger. Abkhazia and South Ossetian wars. Crimea. Eastern Ukraine. Transdnistra ... and the beat goes on.

Donetsk Cyborgs defending the airport were bound, and shot behind the head by Putler's criminal army. Putler's criminal army carried out the Volnovakhna massacre. Putler's criminal army shelled innocent civilians in Mariupol, and Kramatorsk. Putler's criminal army has not laid down their arms in Debaltseve.