Airbus A320 Crash

[Glacier]

So a suicidal maniac would only crash a plane in a steep decent? Maybe he wanted to prolong the fear and suffering of the passengers.

[LoneWolf_53]

So a suicidal maniac would only crash a plane in a steep decent? Maybe he wanted to prolong the fear and suffering of the passengers.

Yeah I sort of have to wonder too what the point of that argument is.

The fact of the matter is the guy changed the altitude setting from 38,000ft to 100ft knowing full well that 6000ft high mountains were dead ahead.

Naturally we can only speculate on some of the actions, but I was thinking that by maintaining a somewhat normal descent rate, which according to Dizzy1 it apparently was, then it's very possible that the guy didn't wish to alarm the passengers until it was almost impact time.

[Dizzy1]

^^ I could counter by asking what exactly is your experience analyzing voice data recorders with sophisticated equipment?

Or you can just answer the question before asking a question.

I realize all things aircraft related are in your wheelhouse, but at the same time I highly doubt you're an expert in everything..

I'm not, but we're not talking about everything here, we're talking about something I am very knowledgeable in.

^^ Data analysis would be it's own area of expertise, one that I'd venture requires plenty of specialized training not to mention equipment.

It is, and I have yet to hear one CVR where you can hear a pilot breathing normally if at all. The only other explanation would be if he had his O2 mask on.

Personally, I believe what Mr.Robin is saying is the fact that you cannot hear him breathing, his breathing is normal.

http://aviation.stackexchange.com/quest ... e-recorded

[Dizzy1]

So a suicidal maniac would only crash a plane in a steep decent? Maybe he wanted to prolong the fear and suffering of the passengers.

The A320 won't let you put the aircraft into a steep descent.

[LoneWolf_53]

This is from your own link Dizzy1...........

... the only sound to come from Lubitz is the sound of him breathing, picked up by the microphone on his headphone set. ... “We could hear human breathing inside the cabin,” said Mr Robin, “and this breathing noise we heard up until the moment of final impact. That means that the co-pilot was alive. Apparently he was breathing normally, so this is not someone having a heart attack, for example.

That seems to conflict with your statement about what Mr Robin meant.

[Dizzy1]

That seems to conflict with your statement about what Mr Robin meant.

I'm aware of what he said. And I'm also aware that the way I'm breathing right now, or how you're breathing right now would not be transmitted via the mic.

[LoneWolf_53]

I'm simply pointing out that the breathing was apparently picked up by a headset microphone, giving a plausible explanation as to how breathing could be heard, since your position is that it can't be picked up by the CVR.

[LoneWolf_53]

That seems to conflict with your statement about what Mr Robin meant.

I'm aware of what he said. And I'm also aware that the way I'm breathing right now, or how you're breathing right now would not be transmitted via the mic.

Then I guess all these investigators have overactive imaginations, and they should come consult you as to how to do their jobs.

I give up, you're right and everyone else is wrong.

Bye!!

[Dizzy1]

I'm simply pointing out that the breathing was apparently picked up by a headset microphone, giving a plausible explanation as to how breathing could be heard, since your position is that it can't be picked up by the CVR.

No, I said normal breathing isn't picked up ... as in the breathing you are doing right now.

[Dizzy1]

Then I guess all these investigators have overactive imaginations, and they should come consult you as to how to do their jobs.

I give up, you're right and everyone else is wrong.

Bye!!

I'm right and everyone else is wrong? Seriously?

I'm very aware of what Mr. Robin has said, and given my personal experience using the very same type of equipment that is used by other pilots I'm very aware what the equipment is and is not capable of.

You can believe whatever the hell you want, I really don't care. But until I hear the CVR myself and know as a fact that his O2 mask was not on I will stand by what over two and half decades of flying aircraft has taught me over what a criminal prosecutor considers to be normal breathing over a hot mic system.

And FYI - Mr. Robin is no more qualified to analyze a CVR than you or me.

Just one example of what breathing sounds like on a CVR ...

[LoneWolf_53]

And FYI - Mr. Robin is no more qualified to analyze a CVR than you or me.

Who said he did the analysis himself? Got a link?

I'd be inclined to think that actual experts would be doing any analysis required, and passing on their findings to this Mr. Robin or whomever.

I happen to feel that often times when you participate in a thread dealing with aviation, you do so with a high level of bias, and it's quite evident in the way you express yourself, namely more often than not your word should be viewed as authoritative and final.

[Dizzy1]

My apologies for taking the sensation out of sensationalism. Events such as this are tragic enough with out exaggerating the facts. I realize not everyone is as interested in aviation as some of us and I realize not everyone is as interested in the dynamics of such a tragedy other than what the media tells them.

Am I biased? Absolutely - the aviation community is very tight knit and those of us involved in this community take facts very seriously - especially when it comes to innacurracies or exaggerated statements from the media.

Simple fact of the matter is that the aircraft was not in a steep descent- it was in a controlled descent well with in normal operating parameters. The outcome of the descent is one thing but there really is no need for the media to stretch the truth on flight dynamics and try to make it sound more tragic as it was. The atmosphere onboard that aircraft would be chilling and tragic enough with out having to make it sound that the aircraft was out of control or exeeding it's design parameters.

As for the CVR - all I'm attempting to explain is that you will not hear normal breaths thru the mic as if it was Scuba equipment. The odd whisp of air would be heard meaning that the pilot was most likely conscious - heavier and more frequent whisps of air would tell us his condition was stressed.

As for my word being "authoritative" - take it what ever way you want to - this is one field that I'm extremely knowledgeable in - I like to share that knowledge in the hopes that people will understand actual facts. Take it which ever way you want.

[Dizzy1]

As for Brice Robin - he's a criminal prosecutor not an aviation investigator. His job is not to find out what happened, his job is to put the blame on someone whether it be the pilots, the airline, Airbus or CFM.

[LoneWolf_53]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/29/world ... .html?_r=0

[OREZ]

The co-pilot deliberately locked the pilot out at the first chance he got, and the co-pilot deliberately, radically altered the course of the plane to put it into a steep descent in a mountainous region.

The F/O did not radically alter the course and as I pointed out, 3000ft/min is not a steep descent rate.

I guess it is all relative, eh? Since you are the expert here: The next time you are in an aircraft which is approaching a mountain and descending at 3000 ft/min, with the captain of the aircraft pounding on the cockpit door trying to get in, after being deliberately locked-out by a non-responsive co-pilot and all the passengers are screaming, you can calmly stand up and explain to everyone that this is perfectly normal and that there is nothing to worry about.

Also, modern passenger jets don't simply fall out of the sky if the person at the controls has a heart attack or seizure.

Helios 522 - flight crew overcome by hypoxia, aircraft ran out of fuel and crashed into a mountainside.

So in the time it took for the pilot to take a *bleep*, this plane was headed into a mountain, and you are comparing that to a plane with a crew who became unconscious after well over two hours of flight "with the pressurization system set to "manual", and the aft outflow valve partially open." and continued to fly on auto pilot until the aircraft ran out of fuel???

But never mind... you are the expert.