Turkey shoots down Russian jet

[just popping in]

I read 2 Russian jets in Turkey airspace, one turned back, the other did not after "10" warnings and was shot down.

[techrtr]

What's ridiculous about his whole thing is Turkey is supporting ISIS. Yet, NATO says it stands by its member. How is it that NATO is fighting ISIS yet it allows Turkey to continue to support the enemy. The more I find about Obama, the more I think he's kind of an idiot.

[rustled]

According to this report, the pilot survived can claims no warning was given.
http://www.castanet.net/edition/news-story-152591-5-.htm#152591

...Speaking from inside Syria via Skype on Wednesday, he says the Russian jets were providing cover for advancing Syrian ground forces and their Lebanese Hezbollah allies. ...

How does one get a handle on this mess called the Middle East conflict?

[delSol97]

It's my understanding that shooting on an ejected pilot in the air is a war crime. Surprised this isn't being talked about .. perhaps because no one wants to accuse a NATO member of war crimes on top of their stupidity.

(An ejected pilot is not a paratrooper, who can be shot at)

[The Green Barbarian]

It's my understanding that shooting on an ejected pilot in the air is a war crime. Surprised this isn't being talked about .. perhaps because no one wants to accuse a NATO member of war crimes on top of their stupidity.

(An ejected pilot is not a paratrooper, who can be shot at)

There have been so many "war crimes" in that area of the world that the term has lost all meaning. You are definitely not looking at the forest and instead are focusing on one tree. What do you call ISIS burning a captured Jordanian pilot alive in a cage?

[Jx3]

It's my understanding that shooting on an ejected pilot in the air is a war crime. Surprised this isn't being talked about .. perhaps because no one wants to accuse a NATO member of war crimes on top of their stupidity.

(An ejected pilot is not a paratrooper, who can be shot at)

I haven't seen anything that claims the ejected pilots were being shot at by the Turks. I understood that it was the Syrian rebels that were firing at them. Doesn't make it any better but it dispels your theory about no one wanting to accuse a NATO ally (if you can call them that) of war crimes.

[delSol97]

I haven't seen anything that claims the ejected pilots were being shot at by the Turks. I understood that it was the Syrian rebels that were firing at them. Doesn't make it any better but it dispels your theory about no one wanting to accuse a NATO ally (if you can call them that) of war crimes.

The videos posted online suggest the voices are Turkish and the translations were to stop shooting as they wanted to take them as hostages.

[Atomoa]

Russia is moving in their new S-400 SAM's. That locks the US and Israel out of bombing Assad and changes the tempo in the entire region. Russia will be controlling the skies now.

I hope it wasn't the same rebels that Canadians are training that shot the Russian pilot in his parachute. Same type of rebels though - otherwise they would have called them ISIS and not "Syrian rebels".

[Captain Awesome]

Unfortunately, there's no scenario where Russia can respond on any meaningful level.

- Turkey is a NATO member, and the principles of the organization state that aggression of any kind against members means aggression against the entire organization.
- Turkey controls delivery of all Russian supplies into Syria by sea with transport ships. Russia needs to supply their own air forces as well as Syrian army with weapons. There's no other way of doing it. If Turkey closes the channel for them, it's game over.
- Russia is betting heavily on gas pipelines being built into Turkey to supply Europe with gas. If Turkey rips up the contracts this will have huge influence on Russian economy.

[Atomoa]

That's interesting.

I'm curious why Russia can't air drop / port drop supplies into Syria. Russia has a navy presence in the Mediterranean Sea and everything they need can be flown in. Going "the long way around" instead of the Black sea would be a pain, but could Turkey block that channel legally anyways?

Technically speaking if Turkey is a NATO member, then NATO just downed a Russian jet and that aggression and reaction can go vice versa. Notice the first thing the Russian Foreign Minister said was "We have no desire to go to war with Turkey" because technically they didn't fire first and Turkey effectively helped ISIS by shooting down a Russian jet. Western backed rebels could have also shot the Russian pilot on the ground.

It's getting complicated and messy over there as per todays news and you have some good insights Captain.

[Captain Awesome]

I'm curious why Russia can't air drop / port drop supplies into Syria.

I think the volumes are just too high. Currently they bring in transport ships filled with supplies. Trying to air drop this amount of supplies would be extremely costly and would require a number of transport planes going non-stop. Also, the skies can be closed for them as well. If Iran wouldn't mind the traffic, Iraq that is heavily influenced by US can probably do that if put under pressure. Turkey controls the channels.

Russia has a navy presence in the Mediterranean Sea and everything they need can be flown in.

As per international treaties, Turkey controls the access of Russian ships from Black Sea into Mediterranean. They have the right to shut it down if they feel threatened. So, their presence there is also controlled by Turkey since their home base is in Crimea, and they can't float around there forever.

Technically speaking if Turkey is a NATO member, then NATO just downed a Russian jet and that aggression and reaction can go vice versa.

Technically yes. But Turkey plays their own game in Middle East. They do want to see Assad's regime go down in flames, they do support rebel groups fighting against him. Russia was in fact bombing these rebel groups. On the other hand, Kurds who for the longest time demanded their own country that would take a chunk from Turkey, Iraq, and Syria are fighting along with Assad against ISIS and all the other groups there, and Turkey always considered them as enemies. And now Russia is helping them with air support. So, Turkey is really upset with Russia doing what they're doing there for their own reasons. Shooting down the plane was somewhat of a message, I think.

[Atomoa]

On the other hand, Kurds who for the longest time demanded their own country that would take a chunk from Turkey, Iraq, and Syria are fighting along with Assad against ISIS and all the other groups there, and Turkey always considered them as enemies. And now Russia is helping them with air support.

Canada is also training those same rebels (that Turkey considers terrorists) so I'm pleased that Canada will be pulling out our jets before we lose track of which rebels we are currently supporting and/or Turkey decides to send us a message.

[Atomoa]

Apparently Turkey is buying ISIS oil. Lots of NATO allies buy ISIS oil. They have been for quite some time.

Russia hit a ISIS-held oil facility and Turkey protected their oil.

[JLives]

So basically it's a clusterf**k.

[Atomoa]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-isis-r ... el/5491897

Israel imports ISIS oil as well. It's relabelled and smuggled but the oil has never stopped flowing.

Who did we think was buying ISIS oil? North Korea? Dr Evil?