Why the U.K. Needs to Leave the E.U.

[Poindexter]

-Apparently the Brexit leaders weren't totally honest...
-The vote to leave the EU has caused racists to act out...

http://www.salon.com/2016/06/27/right_w ... _explodes/

To me it's yet another example of why people who don't follow politics or don't know anything about economics shouldn't vote just out of a sense responsibility. Most people have no idea what's in thier interest and fall prey to misinfornation.

[The Green Barbarian]

-Apparently the Brexit leaders weren't totally honest...
-The vote to leave the EU has caused racists to act out...

http://www.salon.com/2016/06/27/right_w ... _explodes/

This article made me laugh, especially this paragraph:

Meanwhile, racist incidents have exploded as far-right nationalists have been empowered to threaten Britons of color, Muslims and immigrants, intimidating them and telling them to leave the country.

Racist incidents have been exploding for years in the UK, but it's been the kind of racism that the left either doesn't want to talk about or considers "good" racism, as it's Muslims bullying other people in the UK, or Muslim men creating huge "rape rings" in the UK that go unreported because they can just cry "racist"!! if they are caught. If people are finally standing up to the scumbag Anjem Choudary and his gang of horrible racists, then good for them. It's just hilarious that per the PC crowd, Choudary isn't considered a racist, yet people who stand up to him are. Just ridiculous actually. And this is why people are fed up, and have had enough.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham ... on_scandal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_ ... cking_gang

[maryjane48]

When asked in 2014 which leaders he admired, Farage said "As an operator, but not as a human being, I would say Putin. The way he played the whole Syria thing. Brilliant. Not that I approve of him politically. How many journalists in jail now?".[129] Farage has criticised what he sees as EU militarism agitating western Ukrainians against Russia.



here is a snippet from leader of the exit sides wiki page


he thinks putin is awesome . and is against europe opposing putin in ukraine . hmmmmm kinda points to some admirstion of putin . fellow commrade in the making ?

[looking4one]

*removed*

[maryjane48]

Racist incidents have been exploding for years in the UK, but it's been the kind of racism that the left either doesn't want to talk about or considers "good" racism, as it's Muslims bullying other people in the UK, or Muslim men creating huge "rape rings" in the UK that go unreported because they can just cry "racist"!! if they are caught. If people are finally standing up to the *bleep* Anjem Choudary and his gang of horrible racists, then good for them. It's just hilarious that per the PC crowd, Choudary isn't considered a racist, yet people who stand up to him are. Just ridiculous actually. And this is why people are fed up, and have had enough.

thats what a certain austrian said about the jews in 1930 germany . that really the path your going to support ?

[hobbyguy]

You guys need to get off that thought about racism. According to the polls from Angus Reid, more people in BC think we should get out of NAFTA or renegotiate it than who think it is good for Canada. Similar stats in Ontario. If you follow the same propalogic as is being used against the "leave" vote, then you would have to say that Canada is an extremely racist country, and BC the worst because because 34% of BC would vote to scrap NAFTA altogether. It is horsefeathers!

The EU vested interests are ginning up a misinformation campaign, don't be sucked in.

[The Green Barbarian]

thats what a certain austrian said about the jews in 1930 germany . that really the path your going to support ?

ha ha ha - by Godwin's law you just lost the argument. What a joke. Of course the lunatics have to go straight to Hitler. And if you could point me to evidence that Jewish people were running rape rings in 1930 Germany I'd be much obliged. I provided you with proof of rape rings in the UK.

[The Green Barbarian]

The EU vested interests are ginning up a misinformation campaign, don't be sucked in.

I agree HG. To say that "racist incidents" in the UK are "exploding" is a joke. They already have exploded, but the racists are Muslims like Choudary, so no one on the left wants to hear it. Instead they want to make stupid comments about "1930 Germany".

[sooperphreek]

To me it's yet another example of why people who don't follow politics or don't know anything about economics shouldn't vote just out of a sense responsibility. Most people have no idea what's in thier interest and fall prey to misinfornation.

elitist much? people follow politics just fine in the scope they see. just because it isnt through your looking glass doesnt make them wrong. 2ndly people follow economics on a daily basis. when they fill their gas tank or buy groceries. just because they dont watch with baited breath what traders, bankers and corporations are doing playing their games doesnt mean they are misinformed. todays dogmas you cherish and perpetuate will end up in tomorrows dustbin.

[sooperphreek]

When asked in 2014 which leaders he admired, Farage said "As an operator, but not as a human being, I would say Putin. The way he played the whole Syria thing. Brilliant. Not that I approve of him politically. How many journalists in jail now?".[129] Farage has criticised what he sees as EU militarism agitating western Ukrainians against Russia.



here is a snippet from leader of the exit sides wiki page


he thinks putin is awesome . and is against europe opposing putin in ukraine . hmmmmm kinda points to some admirstion of putin . fellow commrade in the making ?

its funny how it is the in thing today to demonize putin and russia. while they are not saints in his administration or him personally himself i dont think western leaders are neither. so why the glass house syndrome? russia annexed crimea because of their military interests. sounds eerily like guantanimo in cuba and the US. and the americans dont feel the need to explain themselves. why should russia?
western powers feel free to destabilize and fund terrorists until the said terrorists turn on them. then they milk it for everything its worth to get rid of a leader in a sovereign country. russia steps in and turns things around in a matter of a couple of months and show the western powers how lazy they have been for years in that conflict. why exactly is it wrong to defend russian economic and political interests? they are after all a world nuclear superpower. and if the EU gets the standing army they want run by unelected officials - tell me - will you feel safe when they protect their economic and political interests? the EU gave all the military grunt work to the UK while they sat back in comfort. and now the EU is even demonising the UK. i feel like many people are in crazy town.

[hobbyguy]

Hmmm... the "remain" side made a lot of claims about economic and financial Armageddon if the "leave" won. The markets took a two day dive, and today? Right back where they started. Except for the pound.

Obviously, the ramifications are significant, and 4 days is hardly enough to judge.

In Canada, we have experienced a currency devaluation of roughly 30%. That currency devaluation has been good for some, winners and losers in all changes. The winners have been Canadian operations with high labor content - which is good for the average person on that side of the ledger. The downside has been some inflationary pressure, but it has been moderate. I would argue that overall, it has been good for the average Canadian, not so good for the profits of some multinational corporations. (My heart bleeds lol).

Anyway, it appears to me at this point that the "remain" side of the campaign was just as full of stuff and nonsense as the "leave" campaign.

Underlying this is the fundamental argument that very large centralized bureaucratic government bodies are simply undemocratic and incapable responding to the needs of people properly. That argument has been made by a lot of folks from philosophers through to politicians (like Ronald Reagan). I happen to agree.

On the flip side, having a centralized coordinating body has a lot of benefits in certain areas - like national defense, standardizing criminal law and human rights etc.

The Soviet Union likely failed in large part because is was very much the first case. Example: Its central economic planning was a disaster. Monolith-ism never works well in the long run. China has learned part of that lesson, and has made moves to democratize its economy... not sure if just that will work in the long run.

The EU was very rapidly morphing into a version of "The Soviet Union of Europe". So big, and so bureaucratic, it has been unable to respond to anything in a meaningful way. The Greek financial crisis remains unresolved. The response to the migrant crisis has been? The response to ISIS inspired nutbarism has been? The response to internal issues like France subsidizing its dairy industry - to subsidize dairy farmers elsewhere - well that seems nonsensical to me.

The Italian Prime Minister says the EU needs to change: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-italy-renzi-idUSKCN0ZA16Z Kudos to him to giving voice to something other than the "party line".

When Cameron tried to push the EU toward reforms that would have devolved some meaningful power - he got (as I documented earlier in this thread) stonewalled and bafflegabbed. I would argue that when a centralized governing body refuses to respond to the requests from a democratically elected leader of a major partner in the union in that way, it clearly demonstrates that the EU is a failure. It was courageous of Cameron, but wound up being "spitting in the wind".

I applaud the decision of the British people to leave "The Soviet Union of Europe".

[maryjane48]

why you ignoring why the leave side wanted out hg ? you try and make excuses for the leave side that are untrue . its both funny and sad at same time . the leader of the leave side th8nks europe shouldnt be confronting russia over the ukraine . is that your position as well ?

[hobbyguy]

What I am saying, and those who choose to cry "racist" refuse to understand, is that racism played a very small part in vote total. It is possible that racism was "the swing", 1-2% of the total.

As I have pointed out:

1) Anti-immigration is not inherently racist. That sentiment is usually generated when the average folks are under economic duress. History is full of examples, including the rise of the "Know Nothing" party in the US.
2) Democracy, especially functioning democracy, is a hard fought thing to get. The EU as it currently functions is not very much more democratic than the Soviet Union.
3) 34% of British Columbians would vote to leave NAFTA today. Are you saying that 34% of BC residents are racist because of that? Pretty hard to make that conflation.

I would have voted to leave the EU.

[maryjane48]

lol yes but this vote was about race . had zero to do with money as uk now stands to have job creators leave the uk such as one the japan car markers said it would .
and you havnt addressed the leader saying putin is his hero and the west should but out of ukraine

[hobbyguy]

If Steven Harper had said that he wanted to renegotiate NAFTA because it was negatively impacting the lives of the average Canadian, I would have supported him on that issue. By now I think it is abundantly clear that I did not much like Harper.

You can not conflate such things. I happen to view Bill Vander Zalm as a bit of crackpot. Just because I voted against the HST doesn't mean I support all of wild William's ideas and views.

You need to separate the issues from the personalities and their foibles. In both cases, taking the Brits out of the EU, and opposing the HST, only the "crackpots" would take the issue on.

One can agree with Obama's stance on immigration, but disagree with his decision to circumvent congress and try to put in place immigration "law".

Farage is indeed somewhat of a crackpot, but it was him that forced the issue. Bear in mind that there would never have been a referendum if Cameron had not faced intense pressure from within his own party to get the UK out of the EU. The Labor party is imploding over the issue, which suggests that many Labor party figures were also quietly on the "get out of the EU" side.

The make up of the "leave" vote cut across a lot of political and ideological spectra. To suggest that it was "all racist" or that "all racists voted to leave" is disingenuous.