Electric cars/Tesla/Solar power

Re: Million plus electric cars

Postby Dizzy1 » Jun 9th, 2016, 2:47 pm

Smurf wrote:Does anyone know how they are working out in northern BC or on the prairies when it is cold. Heaters??? How do the batteries stand up at 40 below as I believe most are still negatively affected by cold.

http://www.teslarati.com/tesla-battery- ... onditions/
40% reduction according to this test. Another interesting factor is how much extra juice is required to drive through snow or on ice vs. a clear road. Never really thought about that, but makes sense.
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Re: Million plus electric cars

Postby maryjane48 » Jun 9th, 2016, 5:27 pm

delSol97 wrote:If 99.9% of the vehicles on the road today were electric, we'd be suffering from brown-outs across the continent.

no we wouldnt because the newer ones have a shorter recharge time and most folks would plug in a night when the load is the least
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Re: Million plus electric cars

Postby Walking Wounded » Jun 9th, 2016, 9:30 pm

But now if everyone is plugging their car in at night the demand would be just as high as during the day, so our hydro bills would be even more insane than now.

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Re: Million plus electric cars

Postby Dizzy1 » Jun 9th, 2016, 9:34 pm

maryjane48 wrote:no we wouldnt because the newer ones have a shorter recharge time and most folks would plug in a night when the load is the least

Huh? Most folks would plug in at night when the load is least? Wouldn't most folks plugging in at the same time increase the load? Plus most people run their appliances when they get home, which is most likely the time when people will plug their cars in, unless you think they'll go out just before they go to bed which I doubt, we're too lazy for that.
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Re: Million plus electric cars

Postby Dizzy1 » Jun 9th, 2016, 9:36 pm

Walking Wounded wrote:But now if everyone is plugging their car in at night the demand would be just as high as during the day, so our hydro bills would be even more insane than now.

Thats the thing the electric car fans don't want to believe. They figure it'll be "free". No such thing, you can bet sure as hell that the hydro will increase their costs - when there's money to be made, they're money they want - whether its an oil company or hydro company.
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Re: Million plus electric cars

Postby Smurf » Jun 10th, 2016, 6:35 am

Good points Dizzy1 and we also have to remember that there is no sun at night so solar becomes useless. Sure there will be batteries there to help but can you imagine the fields of panels and batteries that would have to be present to cover all this load. We also have to remember that all these battery banks will have to be kept warm or they will also be affected by the cold. Even wind generally dies down at night. Not saying electric cars are not a way to go but they are certainly not going to be the complete solution at least for a long time if ever. The electric costs might be made up for by the fact you will no longer have fuel costs but then watch what happens to electrical costs which are also required by our homes. I would not want to be in an area where electrical is supplied by private for profit business like oil is now. Price based on competition. We know how that works at the pumps in Canada.

Like many other things we have to think this through well and be prepared for all the problems, not jump in with both feet and worry about it later.
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Re: Million plus electric cars

Postby Atomoa » Jun 10th, 2016, 9:56 am

Walking Wounded wrote:But now if everyone is plugging their car in at night the demand would be just as high as during the day, so our hydro bills would be even more insane than now.


Daytime sun charges batteries in home.

Nighttime charging of cars drain charged batteries. Rinse and repeat.

The whole idea is to reduce the load off the grid. This is achieved by installing batteries (such as the Tesla Power Wall) in the home. You charge them up in the day and power your house with them at night.
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Re: Million plus electric cars

Postby maryjane48 » Jun 10th, 2016, 10:02 am

teslas recharge stations are using solar panels as suplliment so why couldnt home owners do same . plus if you can get over 200 miles in a charge which is doable you wont be charging everyday .
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Re: Million plus electric cars

Postby Atomoa » Jun 10th, 2016, 10:02 am

Smurf wrote:Good points Dizzy1 and we also have to remember that there is no sun at night so solar becomes useless. Sure there will be batteries there to help but can you imagine the fields of panels and batteries that would have to be present to cover all this load.


It would take 500,000 square km's to power the entire world (fully - cars+industrial) on solar panels. If divided into 5,000 super-site installations around the world (average of 25 per country) the space would be 10km/2 per site.

For Canada that would mean we would need to cough up 250 square kilometers, assuming that solar panels wont ever get more efficient.

We've got 100 times the rooftop space available right now without taking away a single farmers field.
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Re: Million plus electric cars

Postby Even Steven » Jun 10th, 2016, 10:09 am

Atomoa wrote:The whole idea is to reduce the load off the grid. This is achieved by installing batteries (such as the Tesla Power Wall) in the home. You charge them up in the day and power your house with them at night.


Sorry to burst your bubble, but:

Solar panels are not efficient enough to charge up Tesla Power Wall and power your home. Unless you cover a football field with them.

Tesla Power Wall isn't powerful enough to charge up Tesla. If I'm not mistaken, you'd need 10 powerwall units (7 kWt) to charge up a Tesla (70-85 kWt). It actually not possible without using an inverter - which will only increase inefficiency.
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Re: Million plus electric cars

Postby Atomoa » Jun 10th, 2016, 10:10 am

Even Steven wrote:Solar panels are not efficient enough to charge up Tesla Power Wall and power your home. Unless you cover a football field with them.

Tesla Power Wall isn't powerful enough to charge up Tesla. If I'm not mistaken, you'd need 10 powerwall units (7 kWt) to charge up a Tesla (70-85 kWt). It actually not possible without using an inverter - which will only increase inefficiency.


Your numbers are way off.
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Re: Million plus electric cars

Postby Even Steven » Jun 10th, 2016, 10:21 am

Atomoa wrote:Your numbers are way off.


Wattage of a Tesla Powerwall - 6.4KW (https://www.teslamotors.com/en_CA/POWERWALL)
Wattage of Tesla car - 60 - 90 kW (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S)

So, you'd need between 10 and 14 Powerwall units to charge your car which translates into $30-$42K innvestment before taking into account the fact that all batteries lose the power gradually, inverter inefficiency, the fact that you need another 10kW to power your home. You'll also need A HUGE ARRAY of solar panels to charge it all during day time. Like, football field worth since the largest solar panel on the market today produces 120W (not kW) of power.

From what I know, it takes an entire roof of solar panels to produce 5kW of electricity which is enough to power a very small home after 7 hours of continuous sunlight and ideal conditions. So, to produce close to 110kW of electricity for your Tesla AND your home you'd need 22 rooftop installations. Just for your house and your car.

SolarCity (Elon Musk company too) recently announced they can get solar panels at $0.55/watt price point. Basically, you have to spend 55 cents for every watt of electricity you're hoping to produce. These will be the most efficient solar panels in the world. So, if you're hoping to produce enough electricity to charge your Tesla and your very modest home (110kW), you'll spend 110,000 watts * $0.55 = $61,000 in solar panels. These are just solar panels not including installation, wires, inverters, etc. which runs around $2.60/watt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_per_watt)

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Re: Million plus electric cars

Postby Dizzy1 » Jun 10th, 2016, 10:51 am

maryjane48 wrote:teslas recharge stations are using solar panels as suplliment so why couldnt home owners do same . plus if you can get over 200 miles in a charge which is doable you wont be charging everyday .

200 miles under optimal conditions, reduce that by 40% in colder temperatures and you'll be charging every day. Not only that, if you don't charge everyday, you'll have a reduced range so you'll be restricted in where and how far you can go until you recharge. In the real world, this is simply too impractical for the mass majority of people. The money you'll save on fuel you'll spend on hydro or upgrades to your home which the average home owner will be paying off for many years to come. Plus the inconvenience of not simply being able to pull into a gas station, filling up in a couple of minutes and then being able to drive for 800km.
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Re: Million plus electric cars

Postby Dizzy1 » Jun 10th, 2016, 10:52 am

Atomoa wrote:
Your numbers are way off.

Proof?
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Re: Million plus electric cars

Postby Even Steven » Jun 10th, 2016, 4:16 pm

Dizzy1 wrote:Proof?


Yes, I too would be very interested to know how to charge a 90kW car with a 7 kW battery as it would defy the laws of physics.

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