A new American Civil War?

[dieseluphammerdown]

Great retort. You make generalized blanket statements that you have no way of backing up so you resort to this? LMAO i expected better from someone who usually thinks they know everything.

[The Green Barbarian]

If anything is learned from this election, I hope this is it. How we speak and listen to each other needs to change.

Agree 100% JL. My parents were in church yesterday and the pastor lined up a bunch of high school and university students, who all read statements about how afraid they are now and for the future. My parents were flabbergasted. They wanted to get up and tell these kids (and their parents) that they are being manipulated and lied to, and that there are zero reasons for them to feel "scared", and that they were making complete fools of themselves in front of the entire congregation. I blame the pastor more than the kids in this situation, what was he thinking?? And this was in Canada, not the US!!

They also couldn't understand why politics was being preached in church. I am sure there were many others in the congregation who felt the same way as my parents did, but they were afraid to speak up and say what they REALLY thought, for fear of being insulted etc. I am pretty vocal and I don't know if I would have done anything if I had been there, other than roll my eyes and walk out if I was really upset. And that's the problem. The Left has made it too hard to speak up, so people vote at the ballot box. People need to be able to say what they really think. And instead of being insulted for it, the other side needs to start listening. Both sides are guilty of this. Both sides need to grow up.

[JollyGreenBully]

^^Your post doesn't make any sense. You say people need to stop insulting and start listening, yet you describe a situation where both you and your parents wanted to go insult some kids for sharing their views. You even specifically blame the "left" for not being able to share your "views" (insults) which you always do.

People have good reason to be afraid. You can disagree all you want, but it's just weird that you think it's acceptable to go tell these people they're idiots.

[rustled]

^^Your post doesn't make any sense. You say people need to stop insulting and start listening, yet you describe a situation where both you and your parents wanted to go insult some kids for sharing their views. You even specifically blame the "left" for not being able to share your "views" (insults) which you always do.

People have good reason to be afraid. You can disagree all you want, but it's just weird that you think it's acceptable to go tell these people they're idiots.

Wow. I went back and re-read it, looking for the insult you perceived.

Well, I guess in this day and age when everyone gets a star, if anyone suggests you've fallen for someone else's manipulation and you're allowing yourself to be used, it's the person who's pointing that out (but, oddly, not the manipulator!) who's going to raise the ire of those who most wish to be outraged.

Which, it seems to me, is the whole point of GB's post. No one in that congregation can speak up about the manipulation without being attacked for "insulting" (or worse) by the folk who can't or won't see the manipulation, or even if they simply have a problem with politics crossing the line in church.

There's a reason anti-outragism is sweeping the nation to our south.

[JollyGreenBully]

Wow. I went back and re-read it, looking for the insult you perceived.

Well, I guess in this day and age when everyone gets a star, if anyone suggests you've fallen for someone else's manipulation and you're allowing yourself to be used, it's the person who's pointing that out (but, oddly, not the manipulator!) who's going to raise the ire of those who most wish to be outraged.

My parents were flabbergasted. They wanted to get up and tell these kids (and their parents) that they are being manipulated and lied to, and that there are zero reasons for them to feel "scared", and that they were making complete fools of themselves in front of the entire congregation.

Right here. Telling some kids sharing their opinions (and for whatever reason their parents as well) that they're all fools, being manipulated, lied to, and that their opinions are wrong is pretty insulting. I really don't see how it can be construed any other way. Maybe if the "hey you're a fool" is prefaced with "oh no offence at all but, you're a fool" then that might work out because that's the ultimate go-to to try to hide an insult.

Not sure what gold stars have to do with anything here. I don't have a gold star.

[rustled]

Yes, I realize that's what you find insulting. Apparently you're more comfortable with everyone sitting silent in church, allowing the manipulation to continue without comment, because any contrary views must automatically be construed as "insults".

This doesn't seem to me to be the position anyone would take if they were truly concerned with truth or justice or any of the things we want in our society in general.

It certainly seems inappropriate to me to feel you must stay silent in your place of worship, when what you'd like to do is reassure the frightened youth (and their parents) that as you and perhaps several other congregation members see it, the world isn't really a far more dangerous place than it was before the election. But these people have no voice. Only the fearmongers have been given a voice, and any voices to the contrary are to be silenced with "that's an insult".

ETA: You've put a lot of words into GB's post that weren't there. IMO, you seem to be responding not to what he actually posted, but to what you read into his post. I've noticed this is pretty common with those promoting outrage over truth and genuine kindness.

[The Green Barbarian]

You say people need to stop insulting and start listening, yet you describe a situation where both you and your parents wanted to go insult some kids for sharing their views.

Rustled explained this far more eloquently than I can (as usual) but all I will add to her comments is that the fact that sitting down and explaining to kids a different view point than the one they are being force-fed by a vengeful liberal media is considered "insulting them" by a DNC supporter, just shows why Trump won. Until the Left understands that people with different view points wanting to be heard is not an "insult" but just a different view point, they will continue to lose election after election.

[JollyGreenBully]

because any contrary views must automatically be construed as "insults".

This isn't what I said at all. It's like you're not even reading my posts.

Here's a simpler explanation. Contrary views are fine as long as it's kept respectful. Calling people fools or saying they look like a bunch of fools isn't respectful. Gigantic, gargantuan, difference between respectfully stating a point and resorting to belittling people.

If you really can't see the difference I have nothing further to discuss.

[rustled]

It seems to me that more and more, people are looking for someone to balance idealism with pragmatism. I'm thinking a Democrat who ran as a Republican can't be too far extreme left or right.

As others have pointed out the country's administration isn't ever down to one person. So how much of a shake-up this will be remains to be seen. Will the new broom have any success in reducing the bureaucracy and corruption that develops in any administrative system over time? This may be the crack through which the light gets in, maybe not.

Interesting days ahead, for sure.

[rustled]

because any contrary views must automatically be construed as "insults".

This isn't what I said at all. It's like you're not even reading my posts.

Here's a simpler explanation. Contrary views are fine as long as it's kept respectful. Calling people fools or saying they look like a bunch of fools isn't respectful. Gigantic, gargantuan, difference between respectfully stating a point and resorting to belittling people.

If you really can't see the difference I have nothing further to discuss.

Ah, I see.

Isn't it easy to misread someone's posts, when you're coming from a particular place in your own mind? You figure GB's parents, perhaps because their views were contrary, wouldn't behave respectfully, that they were going to lecture the people disrespectfully. But that's not what I figured, not at all. In GB's post read his parents' concern for these parishioners. (I didn't feel contempt, which is perhaps why I didn't see any.)

It's also interesting that you'd take a comment on behaviour and use it as a label. I can assure you that the many times I told my kids not to allow others to use them in a way that made fools of them, I wasn't once, not once, calling them fools. Truly, JGB, my feeling is I'd personally much rather someone pointed out when I'm behaving foolishly, or being used for a fool, than to sit by silently and let me continue. Especially when this foolishness means I'm needlessly afraid. And I'd rather the folk around them didn't make them feel they had to sit silent while I spread the fear I felt.

But I guess this is the way the world will go for a while, with fear and ignorance ruling the day because it's so difficult for any of us to speak up, however respectfully, when we know our contrary views will be attacked by those who seem to feel we're incapable of behaving decently, or having decent motives, if we don't agree with their ideology.

[The Green Barbarian]

Calling people fools or saying they look like a bunch of fools isn't respectful. .

You chose one part of my post deliberately to try and spin doctor it, even though that's not what I meant. I also neglected to add some of the details of what these kids were saying, as some were physically shaking and crying, they were soooo scared. When the world doesn't end, will these kids feel foolish for how they acted? I would hope so. But the bigger issues weren't these kids looking foolish on a stage in a church, it was 1) that they are being manipulated by what I perceive to be purely political purposes and 2) that no one in that church felt like they could say anything or offer these kids any sort of alternative view point, for fear of being insulted themselves. That's not right. Someone should have comforted these kids and offered them a different view on life and a different perspective. They shouldn't have felt that they couldn't. And that's why Donald Trump won.

[Lady tehMa]

If there is a civil war, it will be because of the Culture of Outrage.

The liberal left seems to preach the idea that unless you are on board with their viewpoints and beliefs you are evil. Unless you support them 110%, you are the enemy. People are not allowed to hold contrary opinions to what the left deems correct. The left sputters "But, but, but - we are the only truth!". The left viewpoint has become as much a religion as Islam and Athiesm.

The more pragmatic of us go about our way, despite what the left says. Many people just let it slide off their backs. But I believe a lot of people have grown tired of the constant chant of "Bigot, homophobe, racist, misogynist . . ." etc., and have pushed back by voting when they normally wouldn't, by voting against what they would normally vote. It is fact that a number historical left voters went with Trump. Clinton was down in many areas from what Obama got for votes, and it isn't because she is a woman.

There are people down south with valid grievences that are not being addressed by the left; they are told to "check their privilge" and that they don't matter unless they are a minority group.

A friend posted this on Facebook, I am reposting the link here. http://thefederalist.com/2016/11/14/election-marks-end-americas-racial-detente/#disqus_thread

Read it, and consider carefully the viewpoint presented here, I believe it might be illuminating for some.

[jimmy4321]

I think the left and the right are fighting for each of their deplorables to get them over the top.
Unfortunately if not for extreme rhetoric it won't get those people off their rear ends.

[George+]

No one.
Left or right.
Should ever be tolerant,
Of racist, white KKK, misogynisst, women hatred, immigrant hatred, gender hatred, points of view.

Unfortunately, Trump has clearly shown that he has the potential to represent all of these.
That is making millions nervous as there is nothing shown to calm this.

I personally fear a Summer in the streets, once it is clear where Trump is headed.

Already, churches are saying they will hide immigrants.
Will they be challenged?...nice image for the Land of the Free.

And I fear way too much millitary power under Trump, with his appt. of a loyalist General to Cabinet.

The people vs the Army...hmmmm...

[The Green Barbarian]

No one.
Left or right.
Should ever be tolerant.
.

and this sums up the Left in a nutshell.

Already, churches are saying they will hide immigrants.
Will they be challenged?...nice image for the Land of the Free.

Why would Churches hide legal immigrants? This statement makes no sense.