Lunatics pass abortion bill in ky

[JLives]

I'd like to think Canada is a little more sane than the US and with a far better health system.

However not sure there are many abortions allowed in Canada late term either without good reason (most importantly danger to the mother), but we have a lot less lawsuit issues here as well and better professionals for the most part.

Simple terms anything to do with the word abortion whatwhat usually turns into a fiasco, but that's just an observation.

We don't have better professionals. We just treat abortion as a health issue between woman and health care provider and leave government and laws out of it. As it should be everywhere. No, we don't have many late term abortions despite having no legal restrictions. It's approximately 0.4% here vs. 1.5% in the US.

[Veovis]

I find it funny you think the US healthcare system is just as good as Canada.

I love being here, and would be terrified of being sick there.

I also think the people in Canada have a slightly higher quality. Personal opinion. Just watch TV talk shows and court shows from the states and in 30 quick minutes you can feel better about our country.

Personally we had a doctor tell my wife she can have an abortion if she felt it would be that big of an interference with the last minute vacation we booked, we were planning another kid, wanted another kid, but ha ha, she was required to offer it. That's not as progressive as you'd like it to sound. It should be an option, not a vending machine type convenience.

It is a very complex issue and some places get it right, and other places go too much the other way. Taking it away is stupid, making it common isn't right either. As I said before, it would be nice if universal judgement could be allowed by medical professionals but some medical professionals aren't professional one way or the other.

[JLives]

I never said their system was better. My statement was simply that our professionals aren't better. We have some good, some bad, as do they. Our system is FAR superior and I will fight tooth and nail to keep it that way. Access to healthcare is a right, not a privilege.

Personally we had a doctor tell my wife she can have an abortion if she felt it would be that big of an interference with the last minute vacation we booked, we were planning another kid, wanted another kid, but ha ha, she was required to offer it. That's not as progressive as you'd like it to sound. It should be an option, not a vending machine type convenience.

You are contradicting yourself here. Do you want a choice or not? Pick one. It was an option, and you were offered it. You said no, end of discussion. That beats the hell out of the alternative.

[Veovis]

You missed a big part of that choice. It was not a choice, it was a required offer. The doctor knew we wanted the kid but due to the knowledge of a vacation was REQUIRED to offer the convenience.

That I found gross personally. (edit - we both did actually)

I didn't contradict myself at all, I noted a difference between a woman having a choice, and doctors being required to offer a 7-11 style option. There's a difference.

Had my wife wanted/needed it it would have been discussed and choices made, and the funny part you'd hate, we'd make it together as a family.

The way you come off to myself isn't about choice, it's about everyone should make the same choices as you, and that's not choice, it's just your demands being more acceptable....to some people....still a forced opinion, and no choice.

[JLives]

You missed a big part of that choice. It was not a choice, it was a required offer. The doctor knew we wanted the kid but due to the knowledge of a vacation was REQUIRED to offer the convenience.

That I found gross personally. (edit - we both did actually)

I didn't contradict myself at all, I noted a difference between a woman having a choice, and doctors being required to offer a 7-11 style option. There's a difference.

Had my wife wanted/needed it it would have been discussed and choices made, and the funny part you'd hate, we'd make it together as a family.

The way you come off to myself isn't about choice, it's about everyone should make the same choices as you, and that's not choice, it's just your demands being more acceptable....to some people....still a forced opinion, and no choice.

Why would I hate it? I have been pregnant twice and have two wonderful children with my partner who I have been with for almost half of my life. I have never had an abortion. That would be the anti-choice stance going by your logic. Pro choice doesn't mean pro abortion. It just means choice.

And I find your statement of your doctor offering abortion as if it is a vacation convenience hard to accept. If it's a requirement shouldn't we ALL experience the impropriety you did? I was briefly offered a phone # to pursue my options when pregnant with my first AFTER I had made it clear I was undecided on how to proceed due to conceiving while on birth control and being very young. It was never mentioned once with my second. If your doctor did do that they should be reprimanded and I hope you reported them for gross misconduct for their nonchalance of something so serious but it is not required by any means. A mention of options is acceptable, a minimizing/mocking of the severity of the decision is not. And if you are sure I am wrong on this, please quote the law stating this "requirement" as it should certainly be public.

[Veovis]

Again you ignore the situation, while arguing it's about the situation.

Being offered options, is proper. Being told "I have to tell you, you can get this done to not be pregnant on your vacation as I am required to" is different.

There was no misconduct, they are required to offer the "choice"

The open wonderful system you applaud is that same system, the "offer" isn't always just options provided under circumstance but a required offer due to the "fair" rules in Canada the require medical professionals to offer the "choice" no matter their knowledge of the circumstance.

Again I will say, I hate that issue, but much like the one done at the start of this discussion it was done to set lines to be followed, (some will like some will hate) just like the ones our medical professionals have to follow here. I didn't like the ones our medical professional had to follow, glad yours ignored the requirement and let it slide due to professional judgement (which really isn't allowed overall), technically should that have run the other way your would call for the end of that doctors licence. Funny how when it suits ones purpose ignoring rules matters less.......but there is always very polarized people on both sides that will create massive issue if there are not set lines.......Canada just has far more relaxed set lines.

[Jx3]

If you feel that 20 weeks (halfway to full term) isn't enough time, then when do you propose should be the cut-off time? Or are you of the belief that a woman should be able to make that "choice" right up until the head is starting to crown?

I believe it is a very situational, important decision that shold be made between the woman and an unbiased medical professional.

I don't think there should be a cut off date as every situation is different and should be treated as same.

Wow.

As an atheist (or more accurately "anti-theist) my views on abortion are not based on any sort of silly religious dogma in the slightest. While I am not opposed to abortions in certain circumstances (health of the mother, rape, severe drug addictions to name just a few) I am however opposed to abortions of convenience simply because the mother "doesn't feel like being pregnant anymore". I am also opposed to abortions being carried out after a certain point (not sure exactly what that point should be but should be well before fetal viability) unless the health of the mother is suddenly at risk.

Having said all of that, the more I see, hear and read about the direction humanity is heading these days I'm beginning to think maybe abortion isn't such a bad thing after all.

[The Green Barbarian]

Having said all of that, the more I see, hear and read about the direction humanity is heading these days I'm beginning to think maybe abortion isn't such a bad thing after all.

You would probably enjoy reading this:

http://freakonomics.com/2005/05/15/abor ... u-believe/

[whatwhat]

Wow.

As an atheist (or more accurately "anti-theist) my views on abortion are not based on any sort of silly religious dogma in the slightest. While I am not opposed to abortions in certain circumstances (health of the mother, rape, severe drug addictions to name just a few) I am however opposed to abortions of convenience simply because the mother "doesn't feel like being pregnant anymore". I am also opposed to abortions being carried out after a certain point (not sure exactly what that point should be but should be well before fetal viability) unless the health of the mother is suddenly at risk.

Having said all of that, the more I see, hear and read about the direction humanity is heading these days I'm beginning to think maybe abortion isn't such a bad thing after all.

I think you are mising my point here. You seem to just read "no restrictions" and stop reading.

There are few circumstances that would call for a long term abortion, and those circumstances should be discussed between the mother and a medically professional. That is a decision that they can only make.

While late term abortions in Canada are legal, women and the medical system have proven themselves to make ethical choices. Only .4% of abortions in Canada are late term, a majority being base oh a high risk of death to the mother and/or baby.

And hinting at the fact abortion may be a good idea for people who don't agreen with you ethically is just horrible.

[Jx3]

And hinting at the fact abortion may be a good idea for people who don't agreen with you ethically is just horrible.

LOL... I never mentioned anything about "people who don't agree with me", I wasn't being that specific.

[The Green Barbarian]

And hinting at the fact abortion may be a good idea for people who don't agreen with you ethically is just horrible.

LOL... I never mentioned anything about "people who don't agree with me", I wasn't being that specific.

Freudian slip there?

[whatwhat]

LOL... I never mentioned anything about "people who don't agree with me", I wasn't being that specific.

Well that is definitely how it came across.

But oh well, no need to drag this off topic.

[The Green Barbarian]

Well that is definitely how it came across.
.

Not to me it didn't. Anyway, what do you think of the theory that abortion reduces crime? The logic seems to work - unwanted babies born to mothers who can't raise them and didn't want them in the first place are likely to turn to crime when they hit 18 years old. Let those mothers abort those babies, a future criminal now never sees the light of day. Does that make sense?

[whatwhat]

Not to me it didn't. Anyway, what do you think of the theory that abortion reduces crime? The logic seems to work - unwanted babies born to mothers who can't raise them and didn't want them in the first place are likely to turn to crime when they hit 18 years old. Let those mothers abort those babies, a future criminal now never sees the light of day. Does that make sense?

Totally makes sense. Forcing mother's who don't want the baby, or who can't raise the baby properly would totally create a poor living condition for the child. Children growing up in unloving homes, in poverty, with drug addicted or abusive parents etc could lead that child to grow up to make poor life choices, which could end up affecting the rest of the population.

[The Green Barbarian]

Totally makes sense. Forcing mother's who don't want the baby, or who can't raise the baby properly would totally create a poor living condition for the child. Children growing up in unloving homes, in poverty, with drug addicted or abusive parents etc could lead that child to grow up to make poor life choices, which could end up affecting the rest of the population.

Yes, even worse than being a criminal, they might grow up to support the Green Party! :)