Another solar power scam goes bust

[The Green Barbarian]

“Green power from hydro is amazing”

Absolutely we should have been investing in Hydro since the seventies, all of Canada we have a competitive advantage we are watching run away. At the same time there is a place for reasonably efficient solar power. ISS comes to mind as do off the grid weather stations and personal use items for emergency and camping use.

I don't think anyone is saying that there isn't a place for solar, at least I'm not. I just hate when these "green-tech" companies go belly up and take hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayer cash with them, and everyone turns a blind eye. Or thousands of people in Ontario are without power due to idiotic energy policies involving high priced solar and wind, and everyone turns a blind eye. Or an entire bat species is wiped out by wind farms is Southern Alberta. It's not right.

[Ranger66]

“Ontario are without power due to idiotic energy policies involving high priced solar and wind, and everyone turns a blind eye.”

The Ontario power issues were border line criminal.

[Smurf]

Give Horgan and Weaver a chance, we could get there yet. I pitty anyone who can't afford to have their Hydro bills triple if those two get their way.

[hobbyguy]

The solar-windy stuff is full of hot air salesmanship. Used car hot air salesmanship.

I see the solar advocates saying well my electricity bill is "x" per year and the wunnerful solar roof is only 35 "x" so it will pay me back in 35 years. Absolute horsefeathers.

1. You won't get anywhere near the touted output in BC due to insolation factors. Lets be generous and say 1/2.
2. It only works part of the time. Your heating system runs all night etc. So you have to buy grid power.

The typical sorts of results for that type of stuff with intermittent supply and not necessarily when you need it is what China sees. Installed theoretical Wind capacity is 8.8%. Actual portion of electricity used that comes from wind? 3.3% of electricity used. So for wind, which is better than solar, the real world net is 37.5% of theoretical capacity.

I know, "well, I'll buy a Tesla power wall". Lol. Solar City prices it at $7K. How long will it last? 10 years maybe? So you have another $21K to add over the max lifespan of your solar roofy thingy.

3. Know about the rule of 72? So lets say you plan to invest $72K in a solar roof, plus $7K for powerwall. $79K. Lets assume you invested that $79K in a conservative portfolio. A whopping 3% return. That means you would double your money every 24 years. So you have to at least double the value of that original investment when calculating the true cost of the electricity you get.

So lets start with the $2,400/year somebody mentioned. (I find that high, but wth). Allowing for inflation+ lets use $3,800/year average cost over the 30 years. That's $114,000 returned assuming you get 100% of your power from the solar roof. You won't, but lets be super generous and say you do.

But, your original investment of $79,000 would now be worth $178,000 if you had parked it in a TFSA at 3%. Then you have to add in two replacements of the powerwall, we'll be generous and say the price goes down, so that only costs you another $10,000. So we are up to $188,000 true cost.

So, using theoretical maximum output (which is nonsense in BC - you would be lucky to get 1/3 of your actual needs from the solar roof) you paid $188,000 for $114,000 worth of electricity. So you LOST $74,000 in the middle.

IF you use a more realistic output figure for BC, being generous 50%, you actually got $57,000 worth of electricity from your solar roof, but paid the $188,000 - for a LOSS of only $131,000.

And the question is for what?

I see Germany touted as be wonderful - 85% of their electricity from renewable sources! Great. BC with site C will be 95-98% renewable source electricity. So just exactly WHAT? problem are you trying to solve?

Of course, if you don't have access to the grid, then you could look at solar, but for heavens sake go in with you eyes open. South Australia went mostly solar (and have huge problems because of it) and have to charge $.35/kWh (you are paying about $.11/kWh taxes included). Germany charges about $.34/kWh. So it is roughly 3 times as expensive as what we pay in BC. Interestingly, the second loss calculation I did above is pretty darn close to that. 3 x $57,000 = $171,000.

Solar power just isn't very practical if you have access to grid power. It is dang well expensive!

[The Green Barbarian]

Of course, if you don't have access to the grid, then you could look at solar, but for heavens sake go in with you eyes open. South Australia went mostly solar (and have huge problems because of it) and have to charge $.35/kWh (you are paying about $.11/kWh taxes included). Germany charges about $.34/kWh. So it is roughly 3 times as expensive as what we pay in BC. Interestingly, the second loss calculation I did above is pretty darn close to that. 3 x $57,000 = $171,000.

Solar power just isn't very practical if you have access to grid power. It is dang well expensive!

Hobby - good illustration of the numbers. I am sure most of the nutbags touting disgusting solar and wind made it about two paragraphs into your post and then gave up, as it involved that thing they hate almost as much as personal responsibility - math. Math is hard. Best to just not even think about it, use only emotion and dogma to make decisions, and never care about what things cost. That's that only way you can push solar and wind. Turn off brain, and just yell and scream. Solar and wind are disgusting, just like the NDP is disgusting.

[Queen K]

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/video/in ... vi-BBBNQov

[Jlabute]

Now you can pay 2x to 3x more for solar in order to fix one of solar's worst problems, it is ugly. You can now get yourself a solar tree which some call beautiful, and has less surface area. The website says reputation value is added to your ROI. I think I will go shopping tomorrow and spend some reputation.



http://spotlightsolar.com/products/

[Queen K]

Lots of people pay for beauty over functionality. It that wasn't true there'd only one basic car model, maybe two.
Same with clothing, jewelry, you name it.

Why not solar energy and how it's delivered?

And like luxury models of anything, costs usually come down once competition sets in. Why not the solar tree? The red model even looks flower like.

[Queen K]

Oh look, a new type of fast growing job, solar panel technician.

GB and Hobbyguy...if you ever get bored with your present careers...

J/K

http://fortune.com/2017/05/08/solar-pan ... g-jobs-us/


To me, the solar question isn't putting out wide football swaths of ugly solar panels, but rather, it's a the micro individual level such as my friends in Greenwood, or the man who runs his entire workshop with solar energy and then goes out to that Fix-it workshop to repair what people bring in to get repaired. Did you see him on tv running his work tools with the solar panel set up beside him? Off-grid, right downtown. Set up and just did what he had to that day, no parades or green flag waving.

Just like my Greenwood buddies make their coffee and do their stuff off solar whenever they can.

[maryjane48]

elon musk solar panels for roofing are being sold now. cheaper per foot than regular roofing .

[Queen K]

https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/solarroof

I just watched a homemade video of a guy installing his solar panels on his roof. If his shingles weren't so new he would have used tesla shingles.

Congratulations to you! Another successful solar installation on an individual level thus reducing demand off the grid.

Imagine if EVERY house in the Okanagan did that? It's NOT a year round solution, but is most of the year a bad thing?

[Queen K]

https://www.solarwholesaler.ca/product/ ... -inverter/

[rustled]

elon musk solar panels for roofing are being sold now. cheaper per foot than regular roofing .

If you're talking about the solar roof, these roofs still cost a great deal more than asphalt shingles.

And I'm not about to ask my neighbours to subsidize my new roof so I can save money on my electricity, when they can't afford to replace their roof with a solar roof.

Just seems wrongheaded and incredibly unkind, to me.

[rustled]

https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/solarroof

I just watched a homemade video of a guy installing his solar panels on his roof. If his shingles weren't so new he would have used tesla shingles.

Congratulations to you! Another successful solar installation on an individual level thus reducing demand off the grid.

Imagine if EVERY house in the Okanagan did that? It's NOT a year round solution, but is most of the year a bad thing?

Seems to me there'd be a lot of complications if high numbers went on and off grid at the same time.

I have qualms about expecting everyone to pony up for this, regardless of their income and ownership situation.

And if not everyone can afford it, I have qualms about expecting my neighbours to support the grid while I'm not supporting it, just so it's still there for my convenience.

[Queen K]

They expect their project to pay itself off in seven years. What they get in credits selling electricity back to the BC Hydro they expect to offset their Winter electrical bills. Their solar panels also will charge their Volt.

I am so impressed with them.

If I had a roof top that was orientated properly and a house beside me that wasn't taller, I would consider this system.