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Trump Is The Worst President Ever

Re: Trump Is The Worst President Ever

Postby Poindexter » Aug 19th, 2017, 11:28 am

Glacier wrote:No, I don't care about labels. I don't support either party. I've called out Trump's BS dozens of times. I also call it out when the media and Democrats do it. I just think that removing art and statues is similar to burning books.

Trump made a big mistake by not sticking to the current terrorist attack. No one should ever say "both sides" when addressing a terrorist attack. The person should denounce unequivocally the ideology behind the attack without bringing in any other ideologies as bad as they are.

He should be able to stand up and state without question that the neo-nazi ideology that drove this attack is wrong and unacceptable without bringing up antifa just as the left should do the same about Islam without bringing up the Crusades when there's a terrorist attack spurred by that ideology.


This was your comment I was asking for clarification on but you seemed to head in a different direction, or maybe I'm still confused by what you meant when you said the following.
The Nazis learned how to dupe the German people with racism from the Democrats.


But either way I agree with most of what you said in your second post except that I don't think removing statues that celebrate traitors to humanity is the same as burning books in any way shape or form. No one is saying they should erase history, which is what book burning implies. I believe they should teach the history of the civil war in schools and there should be books that describe the events. I'll use Germany as an example, have a German friend who learned all about the Nazi's in school and yet there is not one statue of Hitler or the SS anywhere in the country. They even went as far as bulldozing Hitler's home so it wouldn't be a place of worship for those to might be sympathetic to the Nazi doctrine.

We should never forget history regardless of how unsavoury it may be in order to learn from the mistakes of the past. This was what my original post was saying that you replied to with your first point. You had said bringing up the Nazi's in reference to Trump had lost its meaning because it had so often been done. My point is we should never be afraid to bring up the past to avoid making the same mistakes. That doesn't however mean we should celebrate all of it with statues that are revered by those who may want to bring back an ugly time in history.

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Re: Trump Is The Worst President Ever

Postby Glacier » Aug 19th, 2017, 10:15 pm

Statues are art. When the left thinks it's okay to deface art because Abraham Lincoln was a racist, they are doing what ISIS does. They destroy statues and other forms of art to destroy the past. The right does it too. In the old days they were demanding that books be burned, but now the alt-right is demanding that leftist statues be removed like he one of Lenin in Seattle. This just seems wrong to me, no matter how bad I think Lenin or Hitler or your mom are, they should be viewed as art or literature, and thus shouldn't be given to the book burning mentality.

I do understand that sometimes there are racist presidents like Lincoln and Jefferson, but no need to destroy their statues. Rather, they should be moved to a museum or a less prominent location. I do not thing that moving statues is the same as burning books, but violently destroying them is.
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Re: Trump Is The Worst President Ever

Postby Glacier » Aug 19th, 2017, 10:20 pm

Ka-El wrote:
Glacier wrote: You only win by gaining votes from the other side, so it only makes sense if all the people who like divisiveness and hate voted for Obama in 2012.

Or if the other side doesn't bother to show up and vote. The DNC bears a great deal of responsibility in this as well. If they had selected Sanders as their nominee I suspect we'd be having a very different conversation.

Gotta go. Tee time

Voter turnout was the same as it was in 2012, so people not showing up had nothing to do with the result. I agree though that had not the Clinton machine sabotaged Sanders, he would have won the nomination and likely the presidency.

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Re: Trump Is The Worst President Ever

Postby Ka-El » Aug 19th, 2017, 10:43 pm

Glacier wrote: Voter turnout was the same as it was in 2012, so people not showing up had nothing to do with the result.

Voter turnout was the same in numbers, but not in composition. The neo Nazi fascists and white supremacists turned up in droves inspired by Trump's message of xenophobic hate, while the Democrats, completely disillusioned by their partiy's nominee choice and under the false assumption Trump would never be elected, stayed home. It wasn't the fact of overall numbers affecting the result, but the composition of voters who ended up coming out to vote. That won't happen again.
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Re: Trump Is The Worst President Ever

Postby Ka-El » Aug 19th, 2017, 10:44 pm

Glacier wrote: I do understand that sometimes there are racist presidents like Lincoln and Jefferson, but no need to destroy their statues. Rather, they should be moved to a museum or a less prominent location. I do not thing that moving statues is the same as burning books, but violently destroying them is.

I agree. Moving the statues to a museum makes sense. It is part of history and worth remembering.
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Re: Trump Is The Worst President Ever

Postby fvkasm2x » Aug 19th, 2017, 10:47 pm

Ka-El wrote:Voter turnout was the same in numbers, but not in composition. The neo Nazi fascists and white supremacists turned up in droves inspired by Trump's message of xenophobic hate, while the Democrats, completely disillusioned by their partiy's nominee choice and under the false assumption Trump would never be elected, stayed home. It wasn't the fact of overall numbers affecting the result, but the composition of voters who ended up coming out to vote. That won't happen again.


You do realize that Trump didn't win the popular vote... which means your " the nazi's came out in droves" theory is ridiculous right?

Do you even know how the electoral college and voting works in the US ?
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Re: Trump Is The Worst President Ever

Postby Glacier » Aug 19th, 2017, 10:55 pm

fvkasm2x wrote:You do realize that Trump didn't win the popular vote... which means your " the nazi's came out in droves" theory is ridiculous right?

Do you even know how the electoral college and voting works in the US ?

Plus, Trump did not get a higher share of the white vote than Romney did. He did, however, get more of the black vote.
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Re: Trump Is The Worst President Ever

Postby Ka-El » Aug 19th, 2017, 10:58 pm

fvkasm2x wrote: You do realize that Trump didn't win the popular vote... ?

:135: Not according to him.

fvkasm2x wrote: Do you even know how the electoral college and voting works in the US ?

To some degree, although I'm not nearly as astute as you claim to be. Still, you do know
what parts of the country are home to the greatest numbers of white supremacists, right?

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/donald- ... s-support/

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... rters.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/dona ... 0dab31222f
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Re: Trump Is The Worst President Ever

Postby Glacier » Aug 19th, 2017, 11:16 pm

Ka-El wrote:To some degree, although I'm not nearly as astute as you claim to be. Still, you do know
what parts of the country are home to the greatest numbers of white supremacists, right?

Are you seriously saying that the red states in this map is where the white supremacists live? You think the "rust belt" states are among the most racist states while Utah and California are the least racist? I'm not saying you're wrong, only that I'm skeptical.

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Re: Trump Is The Worst President Ever

Postby Ka-El » Aug 19th, 2017, 11:34 pm

My understanding (and I could be wrong but I’m not going to go back to do all the research again right now – it is bedtime) is that Trump lost the popular vote in large part due to high density urban voting, mostly along the west coast. He won the electoral vote mostly because of smaller urban and rural area voting across America – areas where we would find a greater number of white supremacist groups – particularly among the southeastern states.

:
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Re: Trump Is The Worst President Ever

Postby Ka-El » Aug 20th, 2017, 8:14 am

Glacier wrote: Are you seriously saying that the red states in this map is where the white supremacists live?

Take a look at your map, and then look at the map from the link provided. While hate groups are spread across the country (even in California), there are a large number found around and within the so-called red states, and as noted in the associated article, the Klan are almost always found in rural areas (while black separatist groups are found in urban areas).

http://www.businessinsider.com/active-h ... ate-2014-2
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Re: Trump Is The Worst President Ever

Postby Poindexter » Aug 20th, 2017, 8:26 am

Glacier wrote:Voter turnout was the same as it was in 2012, so people not showing up had nothing to do with the result. I agree though that had not the Clinton machine sabotaged Sanders, he would have won the nomination and likely the presidency.


This is where Russia had its greatest influence in the election. By releasing emails from the DNC that showed they had undermined his nomination, putting their finger on the scale in favour of Hillary, they split the Democrat's base. Many of Sanders' supporters would have voted for Clinton had it not been for proof they had stabbed him and his supporters in the back, essentially making the Democrats the second opposition party.

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Re: Trump Is The Worst President Ever

Postby Barney Google » Aug 20th, 2017, 8:29 am

Well just when we think it couldn't get anymore interesting/amusing/ridiculous it does.

So this morning reports are siting Ivanka Trump as a driving force in Bannons departure from the White House. [icon_lol2.gif]

Talk about spin doctoring!

Trotting out the Jewish lady is akin to a white guy trotting out his one black/Hispanic/gay friend in claims he's not radical.

Ivanka and her husband have been pretty quiet lately.

Perhaps that pesky Russian Hearings dealy-bob thingy has had them otherwise occupied?

So does one naturally now assume that Brietbart will be the only source of non-fake news?

Bannon 'going to war for Trump'? :spitcoffee:
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Re: Trump Is The Worst President Ever

Postby Poindexter » Aug 20th, 2017, 8:43 am

Ka-El wrote:My understanding (and I could be wrong but I’m not going to go back to do all the research again right now – it is bedtime) is that Trump lost the popular vote in large part due to high density urban voting, mostly along the west coast. He won the electoral vote mostly because of smaller urban and rural area voting across America – areas where we would find a greater number of white supremacist groups – particularly among the southeastern states.

:


The Republican's southern strategy has been courting this group for decades, even breeding them to some extent. It's why it should be no surprise to anyone which party the white supremists support.

With the assistance of Robert Mercer, Trump successfully tailored his campaign around this southern strategy and in doing so, legitimized their doctrine of racism like no other politician in modern history has.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

I should add to this though that Bannon was right when he said that if the Democrats choose to play identity politics over this issue they will loose. The majority of Republicans are not racists and they support Trump and the GOP for other reasons, such as religion and economics. If the Democrats make subsequent elections about race they don't stand a chance. So while we can acknowledge it's there, progressives have to change their message, one focused more on jobs and less on identity.
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Re: Trump Is The Worst President Ever

Postby RupertBear » Aug 20th, 2017, 9:04 am

Barney Google wrote:

Bannon 'going to war for Trump'? :spitcoffee:


Bannon may be saying he's going to war for Trump, but if you read a lot of the comments from Breitbart readers, a lot of them are going to war against Trump, accusing him of caving in to the left with his comments about the Boston marches.

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