Hate crimes against Muslims up: What may have helped in 2015

[Glacier]

Can you provide a source? I just like to read raw numbers when I get a chance.
My only reason for incredulity is that while I have heard of hate crimes against Jews in Canada, I have yet to hear of any deaths related to such (not that they don't or haven't happened).
It is no more anti-Semitic to question the assertion that Jews are the target of the most hate crimes than it is Islamophobic to question if Muslims are more likely to be killed by religion inspired violence. At worst, it is simple ignorance.

Read some of thinktanks posts, and you'll see why I said that, especially if you can find the right topics. It's simply common knowledge that Jews are the biggest target of religious discrimination. When supposed with evidence, the goal posts get moved. Okay, so you're not antisemitic, and you're new to Castanet so honestly don't know.

Let's review the latest story: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/hate-cr ... -1.4158042

Now take into account that Catholics account for a huge percentage of Canada while Jews account for 1% and Muslims 3.3%. The resultant is the graph above.

[Glacier]

People don't target Muslims because of their religion. People target Muslims because of their fear of Muslim radicals. A fear that is constantly fuelled by both the behaviour of the Muslim Radicals themselves, and the overly sensational media coverage of every single incident involving Muslims.

You are bang on. You know what's even more dangerous than terrorist attacks (on both sides), that's the accusations of hate and bigotry. This is the same sort of tactic the Nazis used to keep good men from speaking up. That's why I'm determined to speak up when I see evil even if I get called names. I know in my heart I don't hate anyone, so I can't let it bother me.

[neilsimon]

...
Read some of thinktanks posts, and you'll see why I said that, especially if you can find the right topics. It's simply common knowledge that Jews are the biggest target of religious discrimination.

While certainly historically true, and by some simple measures, still true in Canada today, I think there is reasonable argument that Muslims are more viciously targeted by bigotry and hate crimes today. Not that it really matters, both groups receive an inordinate amount of abuse and hatred, and neither warrant it.

I generally think it is futile to try to work out who is more abused, but maybe we should look for common factors among those who would abuse them and try to find common solutions which can help stamp out this blight on our society. I personally suspect that the reported hate crimes are only a tiny reflection of the discrimination and very significant bigotry which exists in Canada today.

[neilsimon]

...
You are bang on. You know what's even more dangerous than terrorist attacks (on both sides), that's the accusations of hate and bigotry. This is the same sort of tactic the Nazis used to keep good men from speaking up. That's why I'm determined to speak up when I see evil even if I get called names. I know in my heart I don't hate anyone, so I can't let it bother me.

I find this video strangely contradictory. You seemed willing to suggest that I am an anti-Semite for simply suggesting that I had doubt over who were the more abused religious group in Canada, but yet you post this video which whinges about "good men" staying silent on Muslims killing Christians for fear of being called bigots.

In truth, we all need to speak out against the violence being perpetrated against all innocent peoples. Does the skin colour of the victim matter? What about the sex? Wealth? Religion? If you honestly feel that someone's worth is significantly determined by any of these traits, you might be a racist/sexist/bigot.

We can compare numbers of Christians killed by Muslims and Muslims killed by Christians and dance that stupid dance. The numbers are very large on both sides. Even more so when we honestly throw in the numbers killed by state-sponsored forces and both directly and indirectly by the actions of states. Rather than focus on further dividing our World, would it not be more constructive to speak out against all of the aggressive violence, and maybe even more effective to speak out against that aggressive violence carried out by forces and countries we can more directly influence through trade discussions, etc.? Please note, I am not suggesting that we do not help defend those who cannot defend themselves.

[Glacier]

^ Good post. Sorry, I shouldn't have been so harsh. I apologize for that; you are not an antisemite.

Speaking of harsh, I think this video is harsh but important.

[keith1612]

turn the middle east into a glass parking lot and save the world from endless terrorist scum.
look at europe.

Yes, look at Europe, go there, see how terrible it is first hand and come back and let us know how bad it is, because it's nowhere near as bad as some sensationalist news sources would have you believe
You're probably safer in much of Europe than in Kelowna.

ohh yes i see your point, people are getting murdered all over kelowna by muslim terrorists.
everyone is really happy and secure in europe i suppose.
damn lying news stations posting fake bombings , stabbings , etc.

[neilsimon]

...
ohh yes i see your point, people are getting murdered all over kelowna by muslim terrorists.
everyone is really happy and secure in europe i suppose.
damn lying news stations posting fake bombings , stabbings , etc.

Your chance of dying in the EU this year from a terrorist attack is about 1 in 8 million. That's roughly 1 person in 40 Kelownas. That is significantly higher than Canada, but still tiny.

That's roughly 0.0125 per 100,000. The intentional homicide rate in Canada is roughly 1.68. The EU intentional homicide rate is 1.10. That means that the difference in intentional homicide rate between the EU and Canada is 46 times the total terrorist risk for the EU. They could have essentially 50x the terrorist activity they currently do and still be safer than Canada.

Of course, you can go on believing that the EU and Europe are dangerous places, but you will be wrong, very wrong. The news won't report items like these because they are boring, but just because it's boring doesn't mean that it isn't important.

[zzontar]

You're comparing accidental deaths with murders.

[neilsimon]

You're comparing accidental deaths with murders.

I edited my post to use more appropriate numbers, but honestly, is it really completely accidental when we deliberately do not take steps to make it as safe as it could be?

[Glacier]

The reason people are scared of terrorism is that it's completely random. Almost all murders are not random. If you're not in a gang, not banging your neighbour's wife the day he comes home from work early, and not engaging in any other sort of high risk activity, your chances of getting murdered drops to almost zero.

[neilsimon]

The reason people are scared of terrorism is that it's completely random. Almost all murders are not random. If you're not in a gang, not banging your neighbour's wife the day he comes home from work early, and not engaging in any other sort of high risk activity, your chances of getting murdered drops to almost zero.

Almost certainly still higher than your chance of being killed by a terrorist attack.

The fact is that terrorist attacks are a really bad way of killing people, and that's really not their primary purpose. The purpose of a terrorist attack is to cause terror and when we start fearing terrorist attacks, when they disrupt our daily lives, they succeed. We should not be afraid of something less likely to kill us than walking down the stairs or lightning.

The fact is that people who think of European countries as dangerous, especially EU ones, are just ignorant and understandably so when they only see the more sensationalist news reports about European events.

[the truth]

fact is the chances of getting killed by a muslim terrorist is going up everyday world wide

[Glacier]

None of those things are random. Plus, terrorist attacks make big news. It's like when there's a big aZZ flood or a YUGE fire. Back in 2003 we had a massive fire back home bigger than OK Mountain Park Fire, and it destroyed maybe 3 homes. No one demanded help from the government. People just picked up their pieces and moved on. But in Kelowna with 100s of homes lost, everyone was feeling very sorry for the people that the donations flowed in from all over the world (even though the people I knew were just as devastated and got no donations outside of the community).

The same thing happens with a terrorist attack or a tsunami or some other event that has mass casualties. People die all the time in car accidents, but the media and the government don't give a rip about the people grieving the loss.

If I were to home and shoot my future ex-wife no one would care. The media would be silent and the donations wouldn't come in. But a terrorist blows up 100 people in a concert, and the media and governments and others around the world are moved to donate money to the victims and help in any way possible. Humans are weird that way.

[neilsimon]

None of those things are random.

I would contend that in many respects, being attacked by a dog is about as random as being attacked by a terrorist, but I get the sentiment.

Plus, terrorist attacks make big news.

Yes, they do, and as a result, they are doing exactly what the terrorists want. Well done to those who sensationally report on terrorism, you're doing the terrorist's work for them.

...
The same thing happens with a terrorist attack or a tsunami or some other event that has mass casualties.

In fairness, the Boxing Day Tsunami killed around 250,000 people. That's almost like 100 September 11th attacks. Yet people are in general far less concerned about these kinds of natural disaster than terrorism. They're about as random and far more deadly.

People die all the time in car accidents, but the media and the government don't give a rip about the people grieving the loss.

Yes, that is part of the tragedy. We ignore the real threats in our society and sensationalise the minuscule ones. Almost as bad, such highlighting actually increases the damage done and the likelihood of increased deaths.

If I were to home and shoot my future ex-wife no one would care. The media would be silent and the donations wouldn't come in. But a terrorist blows up 100 people in a concert, and the media and governments and others around the world are moved to donate money to the victims and help in any way possible. Humans are weird that way.

Yes, we certainly are. We like to think of ourselves as logical, rational and complex thinkers, but emotion and simple-mindedness are by far more common and influential.

[neilsimon]

SURVEY OF MUSLIMS IN CANADA

Sorry for breaking in.

But.

As evening falls of the beautify city of Kelowna, in Canada, in the greatest country in the world, just a reminder that my earlier post was directed towards everyone here.

And please note that despite one particular photo on the cover, this is not a government sponsored or published report.

Hey, did you know that, “The first recorded Muslim family arrived in Upper Canada from Scotland in the early 1850s.”

Yeah, so I think some will be satisfied with how it addresses many of the personal views and opinions that I’ve read here so far.

HERE'S THE LINK!

http://www.environicsinstitute.org/uploads/institute-projects/survey%20of%20muslims%20in%20canada%202016%20-%20final%20report.pdf

Peace and night-night.

I look forward to reading comments on this in the morning.

Since this is the topic of this thread.

To me it is interesting how much Muslims in Canada want to be Canadian, not just in terms of citizenship, but in terms of the responsibilities, freedoms and values often associated with such.
The report highlights this repeatedly, but it also points out how relatively new to Canada Muslims generally are (in 2016 it seems that more than half of the Muslim population had arrived since 2000 and made up just over 3% of the population), and I would like to see a comparison of their opinions and those of other recent immigrants. I suspect that the differences would be quite small.

Of interest to me is that Muslims think that "tolerance/respect for others" is more important for immigrants than other Canadians. Interestingly, Muslims overwhelmingly support the Liberals and do seem to have more traditional values (greater importance of the father in the family, lack of support for homosexuality. They also seem to have a more generous opinion of other Canadians than those Canadians themselves (see pages 35 and 36)

Anyway, it's an interesting survey and certainly not one which I think portrays Muslims in a harsh light.