Hate crimes against Muslims up: What may have helped in 2015

[f/22]

SURVEY OF MUSLIMS IN CANADA

Sorry for breaking in.

But.

As evening falls of the beautify city of Kelowna, in Canada, in the greatest country in the world, just a reminder that my earlier post was directed towards everyone here.

And please note that despite one particular photo on the cover, this is not a government sponsored or published report.

Hey, did you know that, “The first recorded Muslim family arrived in Upper Canada from Scotland in the early 1850s.”

Yeah, so I think some will be satisfied with how it addresses many of the personal views and opinions that I’ve read here so far.

HERE'S THE LINK!

http://www.environicsinstitute.org/uploads/institute-projects/survey%20of%20muslims%20in%20canada%202016%20-%20final%20report.pdf

Peace and night-night.

I look forward to reading comments on this in the morning.

[zzontar]

What if hate crimes against the KKK were up, would that be bad seeing as they have a similar agenda?

No pro-Muslim supporters want to touch this one?

[neilsimon]

...
I'm honestly trying to believe you mean something not horrible in your posts here, but at this point you really come off to me as saying that beating the tar out of your wife with a weapon, in your eyes, is to tame and should get a pass and be ignored.

No, certainly not what I am saying at all. I am saying that this incident wasn't widely reported, just as the vast, vast majority of domestic violence cases are not. If they were, the news would basically just be domestic violence reports. No one of them should be ignored, by the police, or courts. We shouldn't pretend that such abuse isn't going on in our neighbourhoods, towns and even among our friends. But, by their nature, these incidents are private affairs and sometimes such privacy should be observed, not because of the abuser, but because of the abused.

Some people were claiming a sort of white-wash about this particular incident. There wasn't. It's just that domestic violence is rarely reported in any real detail.

I won't pretend to know the motivations for most to get so worked up over this one incident, and not over the countless others, that would be inappropriate, but I have little doubt that Ezra got so because of the perpetrator. It is clear from his report that the abused woman was of no real interest to him. He didn't report on her much at all. All he cared about was demonising the abuser, who to be clear should be, but if Ezra only targets one abuser and ignores the rest, and particularly plays up certain aspects of that abuser, one might reasonably conclude that he was doing so because of reasons not related to reducing the suffering of abused people, but rather to generally demonise people with a focused on common trait with the demon.

I can't comprehend that mentality. I don't care if you've heard worse, I've heard and seen many awful things in life, it doesn't mean that anything a bit less awful no longer should be counted, or not matter. Right and wrong shouldn't morally pivot with each new worse thing you encounter.

I hope the above allays your fears about my mentality. I certainly never, ever said that this violent incident, abused woman, or even the abuser didn't matter, or shouldn't be treated with the utmost importance and seen as a very severe situation requiring the full intervention of the police and legal system. I said that they were "unremarkable" (it's just too common to be considered such), and not "news worthy" (domestic violence is generally not news worthy).

Clearly I must be missing it as I can't believe someone actually is that morally numb.

Believe me, I am not so morally numb, there are few things out there that upset me as much as domestic abuse, but wanting to help the abused is a very different, and often contradictory to wanting to report, especially in the sensational way this was reported.

If Ezra had reported how terrible it was that we weren't making sure that men and women arriving in Canada were aware of the support available to them to deal with such issues, that abuse would not be tolerated no matter what, that there are shelters and support systems, I could get behind that. If he was to talk about the general prevalence of abuse in Canada, and even show statistics which included the levels of abuse among difference groups and what can be done for them, I could understand. But he didn't, he did little but ignore the abused woman. He focused on the abuser, their nationality, religion and the fact that they "claimed" to not know that it was against the law to beat your wife with a hockey stick for 30 minutes. That is being morally numb, that is cold. In fact, I strongly suspect that he didn't have her support in reporting this and that is him hurting her, just to get his twisted little message across.

[Merry]

If Ezra had reported how terrible it was that we weren't making sure that men and women arriving in Canada were aware of the support available to them to deal with such issues, that abuse would not be tolerated no matter what, that there are shelters and support systems, I could get behind that.

It's true that we need to make sure that people arriving in Canada (particularly those who are from cultures that have societal norms that are in direct conflict with our own) need to be made aware of what is, and what is not, acceptable in their new home.

But the problem is that, every time someone suggests finding what cultural norms new immigrants support, and then trying to "re-educate" said immigrants if their native cultural norms conflict with Canadian ones, the people making the suggestion are accused of being "racist". And the end result is that nothing is done to help the new immigrants integrate into their new society.

If we are to help such immigrants we MUST acknowledge that there are those whose cultural norms are alien to Western Democratic Principles, and formulate a plan to help those folks adapt to Western ways. Because, if we don't, not only are we making the transition to life in Canada harder for those immigrants, but we are also making it far more likely that it will be much more difficult for those already here to accept the new group.

It's not "racist" to look for ways to help ease tensions between groups of people who are not used to each others cultural norms. It's common sense.

[Smurf]

I understand the bit about not understanding Canadian law but does that not present a huge problem? Does that mean that under their own law they can beat women or in other words their culture is okay with beating women. Should it not be that it is against the law period to beat women or anyone for that matter. Assault is assault no matter how you look at it and anyone condoning it is in my mind wrong. A society condoning it is even worse.

[the truth]

exactly

[Queen K]

A Muslim 17 yr old girl was murdered in Virginia. It's now being investigated as a hate crime and rightly so. Her group of friends will be haunted for life that that they didn't have her with them when they left the Mosque. Can't imagine her terror. This sort of thing is going to further divide a divided nation.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/of ... li=AAggFp5

This is yet another hate crime, another day with a loss of life.

Is the assaulter's political leanings even going to come into this? Who did this Torres support in the last election? Egged on by conservative rhetoric or what is going on in the Muslim World itself?

[Merry]

It's true that wars lead to vast movements of populations, which in turn results in the refugee problems the world often faces.

It is also true that many of the wars in poorer nations are financed by "special interests" in richer nations (not always the governments of those nations).

But I think it is an oversimplification to say that wars and large refugee movements are the only reason we have hate crimes taking place around the world. Because there are many reasons why various groups and individuals hate each other.

Sometimes people are just full of "hate" and if it wasn't for one reason, it would be for another. Sadly it seems to be part of human nature. It's certainly been going on since time began. For that reason I doubt we'll ever be able to eliminate hate crimes completely. The best we can do is make changes that might help lessen them a little.

[Glacier]

Today:


“Group says Conservative rhetoric during 2015 election campaign helped fuel increase in incidents”

Hate crimes against Muslims in Canada up 60%, StatsCan reports

(Video: Khalid Elgazzar on new Statscan Hate crime numbers)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/hate-cr ... -1.4158042

This is pure fearmongering and hate-filled propaganda. Hate crimes against Catholics is also up 60%, and you're not concerned about that. Guess what, I will tell you why. It's because there are so few hate crimes in Canada that a few incidents can dramatically increase the hate crimes from the year before, say like by 60%. One year does not make a trend. Jews are still the most likely religious group to be targeted.

[Merry]

People don't target Muslims because of their religion. People target Muslims because of their fear of Muslim radicals. A fear that is constantly fuelled by both the behaviour of the Muslim Radicals themselves, and the overly sensational media coverage of every single incident involving Muslims.

[neilsimon]

... Jews are still the most likely religious group to be targeted.

Maybe true. I don't know. But according to Pew, they are the most "liked" religion in the US. Guess who is second last, yes, it's those damn atheists. And no prizes for last place.
Interestingly, Democrats are much more "fair" minded, with far less spread in how they perceive different religious groups:
http://www.pewforum.org/2017/02/15/americans-express-increasingly-warm-feelings-toward-religious-groups/

[Glacier]

Maybe true. I don't know.

Thinktank, is this you?? You can't be serious!? I hope you're not antisemitic! It said it right in the article. Allow me to break it down for you in graphical form.

[neilsimon]

Maybe true. I don't know.

Thinktank, is this you?? You can't be serious!? I hope you're not antisemitic! It said it right in the article. Allow me to break it down for you in graphical form.

hatecrimes.jpg

Can you provide a source? I just like to read raw numbers when I get a chance.
My only reason for incredulity is that while I have heard of hate crimes against Jews in Canada, I have yet to hear of any deaths related to such (not that they don't or haven't happened).
It is no more anti-Semitic to question the assertion that Jews are the target of the most hate crimes than it is Islamophobic to question if Muslims are more likely to be killed by religion inspired violence. At worst, it is simple ignorance.

[keith1612]

turn the middle east into a glass parking lot and save the world from endless terrorist scum.
look at europe.

[neilsimon]

turn the middle east into a glass parking lot and save the world from endless terrorist scum.
look at europe.

Yes, look at Europe, go there, see how terrible it is first hand and come back and let us know how bad it is, because it's nowhere near as bad as some sensationalist news sources would have you believe
You're probably safer in much of Europe than in Kelowna.