Pumpkin spice lattes are racist

Re: Pumpkin spice lattes are racist

Postby Omnitheo » Oct 10th, 2017, 9:16 am

Oh dear Rustled...can you not see what you just said? You’re saying it’s easier to shift the focus...while you’re the one shifting the focus from racism to “anti-racists” lol what? This is like when people were murdered by Nazi demonstrators and instead of discussing it, forum members went straight to blaming antifa...who caused no murders and actually saved the lives of some clergymen.
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Re: Pumpkin spice lattes are racist

Postby The Green Barbarian » Oct 10th, 2017, 9:26 am

Omnitheo wrote: This is like when people were murdered by Nazi demonstrators and instead of discussing it, forum members went straight to blaming antifa...


Literally no one did this.

who caused no murders and actually saved the lives of some clergymen.


and then went around beating up cops in Boston a week later. Antifa sucks. You can spin it any way you want, but they are evil scum.

Anyway, back to the topic, which is "Pumpkin Spiced Lattes are Racist", and the discussion of Ultraviolet - is this group nuts? If not, why not? Do they do more harm then good with idiotic campaigns like this? I say YOU BET. Do Leftists get that? Clearly, they do not. Which is why they will be screaming again and blaming everyone else but themselves at Donald's second inauguration.
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Re: Pumpkin spice lattes are racist

Postby The Green Barbarian » Oct 10th, 2017, 9:28 am

Verum wrote:Maybe the ignorance is the source of the problem and therefore to solve the problem the truth has to come out.


I couldn't agree more. Which is why when ignorance as exhibited by Ultraviolet is on display like it is here, the Truth can finally come out, and the Left and start wearing a giant load of the shame they deserve for Donald Trump being elected.
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Re: Pumpkin spice lattes are racist

Postby Omnitheo » Oct 10th, 2017, 10:03 am

The Green Barbarian wrote:
Omnitheo wrote: This is like when people were murdered by Nazi demonstrators and instead of discussing it, forum members went straight to blaming antifa...


Literally no one did this.


I guess this makes you literally no one.
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Re: Pumpkin spice lattes are racist

Postby The Green Barbarian » Oct 10th, 2017, 10:07 am

Omnitheo wrote:
I guess this makes you literally no one.


yes, I guess it does, because you are totally misrepresenting everything. What's with the constant spin? And there was one protestor killed in Charlottesville (a tragedy for sure), yet you deliberately misrepresent it as "people were murdered (plural)". Why? Is the Left cause sinking so fast (a prime example being the stupidity being demonstrated by Ultraviolet) that you have to totally misrepresent reality to try and further your cause? What's the deal? Do you think Rustled is actually not going to see this deliberate prevarication and respond accordingly?

As I said though, let's try and stay on topic here.
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Re: Pumpkin spice lattes are racist

Postby rustled » Oct 10th, 2017, 10:10 am

Omnitheo wrote:Oh dear Rustled...can you not see what you just said? You’re saying it’s easier to shift the focus...while you’re the one shifting the focus from racism to “anti-racists” lol what? This is like when people were murdered by Nazi demonstrators and instead of discussing it, forum members went straight to blaming antifa...who caused no murders and actually saved the lives of some clergymen.

Interesting perception bias there, Omnitheo. You may wish to believe the topic is racism, and proceed to discuss that to your heart's content. The topic is actually anti-racism, i.e. boycotting Starbucks to combat Trump racism. I get that you can't see this, and I get why it's easier to mock and deflect. (Also, I think you'll find "anti-racist" is your term, not mine. I've tried to keep focused on racism and anti-racism, instead of making it personal. This helps remind us we're all in this together, working toward a solution instead of pitting people against each other.)

Using any means at your disposal to pretend anti-racism has nothing to answer for, trying to shut down discussion, mocking others into silence, is precisely what Phillips eventually recognized as entirely the wrong thing to do.

Because as he says, it's not about what we want to believe, it's about what is true. And what's true, here, whether we wish to believe it or not, is that there is a reason anti-racism has gotten to the place where people can mount a campaign involving pumpkin spice lattes and boycotts of Starbucks and other random businesses to "combat" Trump racism.

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Re: Pumpkin spice lattes are racist

Postby Poindexter » Oct 10th, 2017, 11:16 am

*removed*
Last edited by ferri on Oct 10th, 2017, 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pumpkin spice lattes are racist

Postby Omnitheo » Oct 10th, 2017, 11:38 am

rustled wrote:
Omnitheo wrote:Oh dear Rustled...can you not see what you just said? You’re saying it’s easier to shift the focus...while you’re the one shifting the focus from racism to “anti-racists” lol what? This is like when people were murdered by Nazi demonstrators and instead of discussing it, forum members went straight to blaming antifa...who caused no murders and actually saved the lives of some clergymen.

Interesting perception bias there, Omnitheo. You may wish to believe the topic is racism, and proceed to discuss that to your heart's content. The topic is actually anti-racism, i.e. boycotting Starbucks to combat Trump racism. I get that you can't see this, and I get why it's easier to mock and deflect. (Also, I think you'll find "anti-racist" is your term, not mine. I've tried to keep focused on racism and anti-racism, instead of making it personal. This helps remind us we're all in this together, working toward a solution instead of pitting people against each other.)

Using any means at your disposal to pretend anti-racism has nothing to answer for, trying to shut down discussion, mocking others into silence, is precisely what Phillips eventually recognized as entirely the wrong thing to do.

Because as he says, it's not about what we want to believe, it's about what is true. And what's true, here, whether we wish to believe it or not, is that there is a reason anti-racism has gotten to the place where people can mount a campaign involving pumpkin spice lattes and boycotts of Starbucks and other random businesses to "combat" Trump racism.


Oops forgot where I was. You’re right this topic is Anti-racism. In general though, it doesn’t seem to matter what the topic is, as nobody is innocent of deflection. Every thread about the liberals becomes an NDP bashing thread. Every thread in Canada becomes anti-Trudeau. Every thread about Trump gets spammed with conspiracy theories and what-ifs about Hillary, and when there’s a white-supremacy riot and a thread about the damage caused and lives ruined because of it, people deflect onto antifa. And in all these cases it’s typically the same user doing this and using these topics as an excuse to indirectly bash forum members.

This particular thread has been all over the place, but it seems to have been started on a false premise, as so many of these have been. I can say though that I don’t feel “anti-racism” is in any way as damaging as actual racism. Just as anti-fascism is to real fascism. I think people can certainly go too far, and that this can undermine their cause, but that doesn’t mean the entire cause is moot.
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Re: Pumpkin spice lattes are racist

Postby Poindexter » Oct 10th, 2017, 12:04 pm

rustled:
Using any means at your disposal to pretend anti-racism has nothing to answer for, trying to shut down discussion, mocking others into silence, is precisely what Phillips eventually recognized as entirely the wrong thing to do. 


Good point but IMO, liberal immigration policies are what have led to the backlash, not groups like ultraviolet who speak for a small segment of the left. The mocking part is just to keep things light and it's sad that some are able to dish it out and but are too sensitive to take it in return. It's another example of the double standard the right affords itself which in many ways is what's led to the tone of the left, but that's something the right will pretend they have nothing to answer for.

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Re: Pumpkin spice lattes are racist

Postby rustled » Oct 10th, 2017, 12:28 pm

Omnitheo wrote:Oops forgot where I was. You’re right this topic is Anti-racism. In general though, it doesn’t seem to matter what the topic is, as nobody is innocent of deflection. Every thread about the liberals becomes an NDP bashing thread. Every thread in Canada becomes anti-Trudeau. Every thread about Trump gets spammed with conspiracy theories and what-ifs about Hillary, and when there’s a white-supremacy riot and a thread about the damage caused and lives ruined because of it, people deflect onto antifa. And in all these cases it’s typically the same user doing this and using these topics as an excuse to indirectly bash forum members.

This particular thread has been all over the place, but it seems to have been started on a false premise, as so many of these have been. I can say though that I don’t feel “anti-racism” is in any way as damaging as actual racism. Just as anti-fascism is to real fascism. I think people can certainly go too far, and that this can undermine their cause, but that doesn’t mean the entire cause is moot.

WADR, "everyone else is doing it" isn't helpful. I don't agree there's a false premise.

No one is saying anti-racism is "worse" than racism. Both are problems, and anti-racism has a double-down effect on racism. Phillips explains the concern this way: "I wonder if the way we got here has unleashed forces that could undo everything we achieved."

Further, this tendency to label people as racists when they're simply trying to discuss topics of concern gets us nowhere, because it makes people fall silent rather than be labeled. That means real problems, like Rotherham, not only cause genuine harm, they also increase the likelihood of racial tension and racism.

The pumpkin spice latte boycott nonsense arose from the mass of people thinking they can somehow quash racism by silencing those who want to talk about and address genuine problems related to race. Phillips has come to disagree with this approach, and explains why it's counterproductive. "When you are able to look at the data without obsessing about racial prejudice, or being afraid of being called racist, you can start giving help to those who most need it. That's true equality."

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Re: Pumpkin spice lattes are racist

Postby Poindexter » Oct 10th, 2017, 12:36 pm

The best part of Phillips video is when he interviews Tony Blair near the end and Blair says that racism was outright blatant a few short years ago but has gotten better, that they have made some progress. Kind of throws his entire premise out the window when he sheepishly agreed.
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Re: Pumpkin spice lattes are racist

Postby The Green Barbarian » Oct 10th, 2017, 12:47 pm

Omnitheo wrote:
This particular thread has been all over the place, but it seems to have been started on a false premise,.


How is it false? Instead of talking about Ultraviolet, and whether people here agree or disagree with their idiotic campaign, indeed the Leftists here have taken us "all over the place". There was no "false premise" here at all, it was supposed to be a discussion about Ultraviolet's foolish campaign. I for one am interested to hear from leftists how harmful and damaging these campaigns that are so useless and stupid affect the electability of the Left, and ultimately, cause the return of Donald Trump to the White House. Instead, all I've seen is deflection and zero assumption of guilt, which to me is just baffling. The lack of will to accept any form of reality into their Leftist dogma is actually fascinating to watch.
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Re: Pumpkin spice lattes are racist

Postby rustled » Oct 10th, 2017, 12:47 pm

Poindexter wrote:
rustled:
Using any means at your disposal to pretend anti-racism has nothing to answer for, trying to shut down discussion, mocking others into silence, is precisely what Phillips eventually recognized as entirely the wrong thing to do. 


Good point but IMO, liberal immigration policies are what have led to the backlash, not groups like ultraviolet who speak for a small segment of the left. The mocking part is just to keep things light and it's sad that some are able to dish it out and but are too sensitive to take it in return. It's another example of the double standard the right affords itself which in many ways is what's led to the tone of the left, but that's something the right will pretend they have nothing to answer for.


Yes, in many ways it is the tone of the left, but the right does it, too. It seems counterproductive to play who's better than who, who's worse than who, when what we ought to be doing is working together toward solutions. That means introspection for all of us.

To my mind, there's quite a difference between mocking the absurdity of a concept (keeping it light and uniting us as we marvel together at the absurdity, as you did on page one of this thread), and mocking those who post about the absurdity. Scoot back to page one of this thread and see where it started going from "that's crazy" to "you're stupid". To me, it's a pretty clear example of how that big sinister mass under the tip of the iceberg (duh duh duh duuuuhhh) gets in our way. We can't talk about any of it, even the extreme pumpkin-latte-boycott tip, without devolving into contemptuous mockery.

And yes, this is an opportunity for introspection for everyone.

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Re: Pumpkin spice lattes are racist

Postby The Green Barbarian » Oct 10th, 2017, 12:49 pm

Poindexter wrote:The best part of Phillips video is when he interviews Tony Blair near the end and Blair says that racism was outright blatant a few short years ago but has gotten better, that they have made some progress. Kind of throws his entire premise out the window when he sheepishly agreed.


Does it though, or is that just your bias coming into play? If the entire premise were thrown out the window, Donald Trump would never have been elected.
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Re: Pumpkin spice lattes are racist

Postby rustled » Oct 10th, 2017, 12:52 pm

Poindexter wrote:The best part of Phillips video is when he interviews Tony Blair near the end and Blair says that racism was outright blatant a few short years ago but has gotten better, that they have made some progress. Kind of throws his entire premise out the window when he sheepishly agreed.

Was that your take-away? Mine was that he felt he couldn't discuss it with Blair. Blair's stuck on "we've made some progress" while Phillips has already digested all the stuff Blair still can't bring himself to talk about. Blair doesn't willingly or truthfully acknowledge the unintended consequences because he wants to focus on "we've made some progress".

To my mind, in that interview Phillips is miles ahead of where Blair's awareness is on this, and he knows it, and he knows it's pointless to press Blair.

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