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Jones closing gap to Moore

Re: Jones closing gap to Moore

Postby Urbane » Dec 13th, 2017, 2:13 pm

    Poindexter wrote: It's unfortunate because as history has proven, everyone in the economy has statistically done better financially when a democrat is in office.
Yes, look at how great things were when Jimmy Carter was president. He must have won re-election in a landslide, right?
[icon_lol2.gif]
But now back on topic.
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Re: Jones closing gap to Moore

Postby Poindexter » Dec 13th, 2017, 2:23 pm

Urbane wrote:[list]
Yes, look at how great things were when Jimmy Carter was president. He must have won re-election in a landslide, right?
[icon_lol2.gif]
But now back on topic.


Just the fact you have to go back to the 70's proves my point. And it is on topic, the fact that Republicans continually vote against thier own best interest in the name of conservatism was fully on display during this election.

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Re: Jones closing gap to Moore

Postby Ka-El » Dec 13th, 2017, 2:29 pm

Verum wrote: I hope that this marks the turning point, where Republicans and conservatives start rejecting the all too attractive populist politicians, the "fake news" rhetoric and rather get back to picking sensible, boring but capable people. Give us someone that intellectuals can vote for, someone who understands economics, foreign policy, making systems efficient and effective. Is that too much to ask for? It is sad that the Democrats and liberals seem to dominate in these areas these days.

If anything good can come out of Trump’s presidency (assuming he does not have a hand in starting world war three – and that’s not even a joke anymore) it would be there will be an awakening, or perhaps that awakening has already begun. Protests, especially those that turn violent, can lead to further polarization and divisiveness, and deflect from the real issues at hand. Increased voter participation, especially by the youth (who are going to inherit the mess left them) – well, if enough of them show up that can make a really big difference.

I think in this last election people wanted change, they wanted to feel like government was for them, and they wanted it so badly they elected a washed-up reality TV “star” to be their president. They were duped. Of course, in fairness to the US electorate, the DNC had also failed the people. We all know the story. Hopefully, someone is learning some lessons here.

I think it is showing that some of the voters are starting to learn some lessons, and they’ve all seen the craziness in this so-called alt-right ideology. One look is all it took, and it scares them (justifiably so). There may be a real quick (quicker than usual) return to the left side of the political spectrum as voters (maybe more young voters who have a vested interest) try to put as much distance as they can between themselves and their communities and this pending brush with totalitarian chaos.
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative." - John Stuart Mill

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Re: Jones closing gap to Moore

Postby Urbane » Dec 13th, 2017, 2:42 pm

    Poindexter wrote:Just the fact you have to go back to the 70's proves my point. And it is on topic, the fact that Republicans continually vote against thier own best interest in the name of conservatism was fully on display during this election.
While I can say with some certainty that BC NDP governments always result in an inferior economy when compared to "other" (i.e. Social Credit, BC Liberal), it doesn't look to be as clear cut when comparing US presidents. Having said that I do agree that the Clinton and Obama economies were strong. On the other hand, Reagan's economic policies pulled the US out of the doldrums after Jimmy Carter. We'll see what happens with Trump's policies.

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Re: Jones closing gap to Moore

Postby Glacier » Dec 13th, 2017, 2:44 pm

Urbane wrote:
    Poindexter wrote: It's unfortunate because as history has proven, everyone in the economy has statistically done better financially when a democrat is in office.
Yes, look at how great things were when Jimmy Carter was president. He must have won re-election in a landslide, right?
[icon_lol2.gif]
But now back on topic.

Not only that, but the president has little control over fiscal policy. We were at a party the other day, and a coin was flipped to determined who got prizes. Heads turned up 6 times in a row. Random things happen, but leftists don't know this. They think correlation implies causation. It doesn't in this case: http://www.businessinsider.com/presiden ... gdp-2014-7
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Re: Jones closing gap to Moore

Postby Poindexter » Dec 13th, 2017, 2:53 pm

Sorry guys but this has been litigated and it's fact everywhere other than the alternate universe the right is currently living. Republicans recent fixation with trickle down has helped the wealthy but no one else. Bush nearly collapsed the world economy and Reagan's economic policies lead to the worst inequality amonst the population since the feudal system.

And Urbane you are right, this is now getting off topic.

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Re: Jones closing gap to Moore

Postby maryjane48 » Dec 13th, 2017, 3:05 pm

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Re: Jones closing gap to Moore

Postby Ka-El » Dec 13th, 2017, 3:16 pm

Glacier wrote: Random things happen, but leftists don't know this.

:200: and you think the alt-right posters we have here on these threads do?
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative." - John Stuart Mill

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Re: Jones closing gap to Moore

Postby Glacier » Dec 13th, 2017, 3:27 pm

Verum wrote:Yes, there may be a correlation between being more religious within a group and being against the likes of Trump, while that group might be in general more pro-Trump than other groups, but that does not remove the fact that those who consider themselves to be Christian, voted for Trump and Moore.

I haven't looked at the stats on that, but I'll take your word for it. But that's not the important thing when determining who much people liked a candidate. Trends are what matter. For example, if 60% of Christians are right-wing versus 40% of non-Christians, and then there's a guy running whose repugnant to most most Christians, he will likely still get more than 50% of the Christian vote, but less than 60%. There are many, many reasons people vote for who they vote for. Religious moral convictions is one of them, and probably a minor one. I would say that religious people are more concerned about moral issues though. Whether it's the abolishion of slavery or sufferage or prohibition, those were all religiously driven movements in their day. That doesn't make them right per se -- certainly in the case of Jihad, it's driven by religion as well, and a good example where religious motivation is not a good thing.

The best way you can tell if a group of people were not happy about a particular candidate is to look at how they voted previously versus currently. You have to adjust for other variables as well like sex, age, and penis size, otherwise, it's not scientific analysis.
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Re: Jones closing gap to Moore

Postby Verum » Dec 13th, 2017, 3:34 pm

Ka-El wrote:
Glacier wrote: Random things happen, but leftists don't know this.

:200: and you think the alt-right posters we have here on these threads do?

In fairness, humans are really bad with randomness, causality, and correlation. We look for patterns where they don't exist. Those on the right are just as bad as those on the left. In fact, since education is positively correlated with liberal political views, it would be somewhat reasonable to assume that liberals are more likely to understand these things because they are more likely to have math or related expertise, though I would like to see data on this before claiming it as fact.
"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." Explains why so few people reply to me, and why I might not reply

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Re: Jones closing gap to Moore

Postby Glacier » Dec 13th, 2017, 3:39 pm

Verum wrote:In fairness, humans are really bad with randomness, causality, and correlation. We look for patterns where they don't exist. Those on the right are just as bad as those on the left. In fact, since education is positively correlated with liberal political views, it would be somewhat reasonable to assume that liberals are more likely to understand these things because they are more likely to have math or related expertise, though I would like to see data on this before claiming it as fact.

I agree with you here, though it seems education is not a very big factor when determining who someone will vote for. It's more of a byproduct of living in a big city versus small city, etc. https://www.quora.com/Does-the-level-of ... e-Democrat
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Re: Jones closing gap to Moore

Postby Ka-El » Dec 13th, 2017, 3:47 pm

Glacier wrote: I agree with you here, though it seems education is not a very big factor when determining who someone will vote for. It's more of a byproduct of living in a big city versus small city, etc. https://www.quora.com/Does-the-level-of ... e-Democrat

Still, it seems right-wingers do tend to be less intelligent than left-wingers, and people with low childhood intelligence tend to grow up to have more racist and anti-gay views associated with conservatism - and there is evidence to back that up.

Conservative politics work almost as a 'gateway' into prejudice against others, say the Canadian academics.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... z4qb2PQTyT


eta: "Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative." - John Stuart Mill
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative." - John Stuart Mill

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Re: Jones closing gap to Moore

Postby Glacier » Dec 13th, 2017, 5:33 pm

Ka-El wrote:Still, it seems right-wingers do tend to be less intelligent than left-wingers, and people with low childhood intelligence tend to grow up to have more racist and anti-gay views associated with conservatism - and there is evidence to back that up.

Conservative politics work almost as a 'gateway' into prejudice against others, say the Canadian academics.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... z4qb2PQTyT


eta: "Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative." - John Stuart Mill

I had to Google that quote because I was skeptical given how many conservatives seem to love John Stuart Mill. People tend to move right as they age... and people get dumber as they age well. More experienced, but dumber.

Anyway, I thought this Ben Shapiro quote is relevant in that we are speaking in generalities. ie. voting for Roy Moore doesn't make you a bad person, bigoted, etc.

"There are a lot of people who voted for Roy Moore because they felt Doug Jones would be a worse senator for Alabama. To dismiss everybody who voted for Roy Moore as backwards is deeply derisive and counterproductive."
~ Ben Shapiro
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Re: Jones closing gap to Moore

Postby Queen K » Dec 13th, 2017, 5:54 pm

Going out on a limb here but "inbred" might also be deeply divisive?
Our saddest days are when we add up our losses, and losses seem to be our saddest when we lose our best. Proud to be a "Leaf-licker" and I know who else is too. **smiles**
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Re: Jones closing gap to Moore

Postby Ka-El » Dec 13th, 2017, 6:18 pm

To dismiss everybody who voted for Roy Moore as backwards is deeply derisive and counterproductive."
~ Ben Shapiro

I would agree there is a lot of truth in that statement, but if that is their takeaway from this loss the future is looking bright for the Democrats - their's to screw up.
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative." - John Stuart Mill
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