Climate Change Mega Thread

Re: Climate Change Mega Thread

Postby Glacier » Mar 1st, 2018, 1:18 pm

floppi wrote:That's it? Only a 118 years of data? Maybe take your own advise :biggrin:

https://www.wired.com/2012/03/ocean-acidification-peak/

Well we could play this game all day long. Oceans could have been acidic even further back than that... https://phys.org/news/2017-04-oceans-acidic.html

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Re: Climate Change Mega Thread

Postby floppi » Mar 1st, 2018, 1:41 pm

Glacier wrote:
floppi wrote:That's it? Only a 118 years of data? Maybe take your own advise :biggrin:

https://www.wired.com/2012/03/ocean-acidification-peak/

Well we could play this game all day long. Oceans could have been acidic even further back than that... https://phys.org/news/2017-04-oceans-acidic.html


Yes we can, but what types of flora and fauna can tolerate those types of conditions? Microbes? Single cell organisms? Certainly not any forms of complex organisms. That is where we are headed if we don't change our ways.
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Re: Climate Change Mega Thread

Postby floppi » Mar 1st, 2018, 1:45 pm

Glacier wrote:
floppi wrote:That's it? Only a 118 years of data? Maybe take your own advise :biggrin:

https://www.wired.com/2012/03/ocean-acidification-peak/

Well we could play this game all day long. Oceans could have been acidic even further back than that... https://phys.org/news/2017-04-oceans-acidic.html


Also from your link: " The study, published in Science, sheds light on how past ocean acid levels were controlled by CO2 in the atmosphere, an important process for understanding the effects of climate change"

Here's the conclusion from the article you posted, " "Today's acidification from CO2 is much more rapid, so this model does not apply to the short-term problem. Hundreds of thousands of years from now, the oceans will have found a new balance, but between now and then, marine organisms and environments may suffer."
Last edited by floppi on Mar 1st, 2018, 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Climate Change Mega Thread

Postby Glacier » Mar 1st, 2018, 1:49 pm

floppi wrote:Yes we can, but what types of flora and fauna can tolerate those types of conditions? Microbes? Single cell organisms? Certainly not any forms of complex organisms. That is where we are headed if we don't change our ways.

Not really. You start getting into problems with a pH of under 5. At the current rate, it will take 3,000 years to get there. And that's assuming worst case of accelerated pH for 3,000 years. We won't be running on oil in 300 years let along 3000, so it's not going to happen.

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Re: Climate Change Mega Thread

Postby Bigjohn69 » Mar 1st, 2018, 1:50 pm

Like i said earlier ,the climate change ignorers only have taking graphs and data out of context and trying to present it as the whole story .

It is like proving jack and the beanstalk by producing the color green

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Re: Climate Change Mega Thread

Postby Glacier » Mar 1st, 2018, 1:54 pm

Bigjohn69 wrote:Like i said earlier ,the climate change ignorers only have taking graphs and data out of context and trying to present it as the whole story .

It is like proving jack and the beanstalk by producing the color green

Not true at all. I used to be an eco-nut and assumed the sky was falling. Then someone asked me to look at the data, and I was forced to change my mind. I used to be like you: "the ocean rise is accelerating. The temperature is accelerating." The data does not show this. Nothing is taken out of context. You just don't know how to read graphs.

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Re: Climate Change Mega Thread

Postby floppi » Mar 1st, 2018, 2:00 pm

Glacier wrote:
floppi wrote:Yes we can, but what types of flora and fauna can tolerate those types of conditions? Microbes? Single cell organisms? Certainly not any forms of complex organisms. That is where we are headed if we don't change our ways.

Not really. You start getting into problems with a pH of under 5. At the current rate, it will take 3,000 years to get there. And that's assuming worst case of accelerated pH for 3,000 years. We won't be running on oil in 300 years let along 3000, so it's not going to happen.


Not really, there won't be any complex life living in the ocean if the ph falls to 5 but the effects of even minute changes in ocean's ph cause major damage in the ecosystem.

"In humans, for example, normal blood pH ranges between 7.35 and 7.45. A drop in blood pH of 0.2-0.3 can cause seizures, comas, and even death. Similarly, a small change in the pH of seawater can have harmful effects on marine life, impacting chemical communication, reproduction, and growth."

http://ocean.si.edu/ocean-acidification
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Re: Climate Change Mega Thread

Postby Bigjohn69 » Mar 1st, 2018, 2:01 pm

For more than 200 years, or since the industrial revolution, the concentration of carbon dioxide (CO2) in the atmosphere has increased due to the burning of fossil fuels and land use change. The ocean absorbs about 30 percent of the CO2 that is released in the atmosphere, and as levels of atmospheric CO2 increase, so do the levels in the ocean.

When CO2 is absorbed by seawater, a series of chemical reactions occur resulting in the increased concentration of hydrogen ions. This increase causes the seawater to become more acidic and causes carbonate ions to be relatively less abundant.

That is from NOAA

Who do you have as peer reviewed countering what NOAA has to say ?

https://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/OA+Research

That link details the changes seen in regards to increases in co2 in the atmosphere

Now,to be clear no one is saying the ocean shutting down for supporting life tommorow ,but what the research shows is humans since the start of industrial use of fuels and such has sped up the oceans uptake of co2 .

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Re: Climate Change Mega Thread

Postby Glacier » Mar 1st, 2018, 2:09 pm

floppi wrote:Not really, there won't be any complex life living in the ocean if the ph falls to 5 but the effects of even minute changes in ocean's ph cause major damage in the ecosystem.

"In humans, for example, normal blood pH ranges between 7.35 and 7.45. A drop in blood pH of 0.2-0.3 can cause seizures, comas, and even death. Similarly, a small change in the pH of seawater can have harmful effects on marine life, impacting chemical communication, reproduction, and growth."

http://ocean.si.edu/ocean-acidification

The ocean pH has changed from 8.2 to 8.1 in 100 years. Meanwhile the seasonal fluctuations are 100s of times that amount. I don't think it's a big concern. Maybe in 10 or 20 years it might become apparent that there is a problem looming, but a change of 0.1 is hardly even correlation with CO2, especially when you see the graph I posted showing it as low in the 1920s as now (though data points were much more sparse then, so a high degree of uncertainty exists in that).

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Re: Climate Change Mega Thread

Postby floppi » Mar 1st, 2018, 2:25 pm

Glacier wrote:
floppi wrote:Not really, there won't be any complex life living in the ocean if the ph falls to 5 but the effects of even minute changes in ocean's ph cause major damage in the ecosystem.

"In humans, for example, normal blood pH ranges between 7.35 and 7.45. A drop in blood pH of 0.2-0.3 can cause seizures, comas, and even death. Similarly, a small change in the pH of seawater can have harmful effects on marine life, impacting chemical communication, reproduction, and growth."

http://ocean.si.edu/ocean-acidification

The ocean pH has changed from 8.2 to 8.1 in 100 years. Meanwhile the seasonal fluctuations are 100s of times that amount. I don't think it's a big concern. Maybe in 10 or 20 years it might become apparent that there is a problem looming, but a change of 0.1 is hardly even correlation with CO2, especially when you see the graph I posted showing it as low in the 1920s as now (though data points were much more sparse then, so a high degree of uncertainty exists in that).


In 10 or 20 years? then what? Deniers will say wait under 10 or 20 years and before we know it, there will be nothing left in the ocean.

"That careful balance has survived over time because of a near equilibrium among the acids emitted by volcanoes and the bases liberated by the weathering of rock. The pH of seawater has remained steady for millions of years. Before the industrial era began, the average pH at the ocean surface was about 8.2 (slightly basic; 7.0 is neutral). Today it is about 8.1.

Although the change may seem small, similar natural shifts have taken 5,000 to 10,000 years. We have done it in 50 to 80 years. Ocean life survived the long, gradual change, but the current speed of acidification is very worrisome. Emissions could reduce surface pH by another 0.4 unit in this century alone and by as much as 0.7 unit beyond 2100. We are hurtling toward an ocean different than the earth has known for more than 25 million years."

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... the-ocean/

While we're at it, perhaps kindly post the link for your graphs so we can all examine it's credibility.

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Re: Climate Change Mega Thread

Postby The Green Barbarian » Mar 1st, 2018, 2:42 pm

floppi wrote: Deniers will say


what's a "denier"? My opinion that anyone who pushes the man-made climate change myth is a denier, a denier of science.
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Who's Dimples? Who's the MP for Kelowna? Both interesting questions that are hard to answer.
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Re: Climate Change Mega Thread

Postby The Green Barbarian » Mar 1st, 2018, 2:42 pm

Bigjohn69 wrote:Like i said earlier ,the climate change ignorers


what's a "climate change ignorer"? The climate is always changing. Lots of different reasons why this happens.
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Who's Dimples? Who's the MP for Kelowna? Both interesting questions that are hard to answer.

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Re: Climate Change Mega Thread

Postby Jflem1983 » Mar 1st, 2018, 2:47 pm

News flash. The dinosaurs were killed by climate change. Sudden climate change. Global warming is a giant scam
Now they want to take our guns away . That would be just fine. Take em away from the criminals first . Ill gladly give u mine. "Charlie Daniels"

You have got to stand for something . Or you will fall for anything "Aaron Tippin"
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Re: Climate Change Mega Thread

Postby floppi » Mar 1st, 2018, 2:56 pm

The Green Barbarian wrote:
floppi wrote: Deniers will say


what's a "denier"? My opinion that anyone who pushes the man-made climate change myth is a denier, a denier of science.


Well, climate change denier where is your science? I don't think I've seen any from you in this thread. Please post anything that backup your ostrich stance. :biggrin:

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Re: Climate Change Mega Thread

Postby rustled » Mar 1st, 2018, 3:29 pm

Reading the last few pages of posts, it seems likely historians in the next century will posit that John Cook was the most successful evangelist in our time.
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