Strip them of the Status Card

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Re: Strip them of the Status Card

Postby Corneliousrooster » Feb 2nd, 2009, 5:35 pm

JonyDarko wrote:I agree with jenny.


I like how people try to make this a "Native Problem"

Euro ancestors caused the problem, the first generation Canadians enabled the problem, our generation compounds the problem.


The first step was for our early leaders to put a price on shame. Our leaders today still need to take that first step - when is enough, ENOUGH! We are paying for the deeds of several generations ago with no end in sight.

If our governments really want to make good - continue to give Native populations (status holders) free social services (counselling, education, training, support) for 50 more years - give a couple more generations a positive head start - Our ancestors did destroy their society, we at least owe that much.

Offering tax exemption on booze and smokes isn't helping anything. Getting a deal on gas or a hot tub does little for the Natives - causes racial divides among the community. Why our generation is paying for mistakes made 200-400 years ago (I know the mistakes continued on but that is where it all started) is beyond me.
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Re: Strip them of the Status Card

Postby Captain Awesome » Feb 2nd, 2009, 5:43 pm

Corneliousrooster wrote:Why our generation is paying for mistakes made 200-400 years ago (I know the mistakes continued on but that is where it all started) is beyond me.


I wouldn't even call it mistakes.
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Re: Strip them of the Status Card

Postby Corneliousrooster » Feb 2nd, 2009, 6:19 pm

CaptainAwesome wrote:
Corneliousrooster wrote:Why our generation is paying for mistakes made 200-400 years ago (I know the mistakes continued on but that is where it all started) is beyond me.


I wouldn't even call it mistakes.


Well normally when one group "Conquests" another they eradicate and/or assimilate - they did neither - Kneejerk guilt surpression with money does not work.
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Re: Strip them of the Status Card

Postby nolanrh » Feb 2nd, 2009, 7:31 pm

I can agree with yanking the status cards of those who abuse them. However, for me the special status is not about paying to absolve myself of the guilt of my ancestors; it's about attempting to repair the damage caused by them. Getting rid of status cards will not fix the problems experienced native people. The problems in the first nations community stem from many years of systematic abuse by our government and the citizens of our country. Obviously the programs in place today are not working as well as we'd like but I feel we should attempt to improve programs rather than the eliminate them all together. I am happy my tax dollars pay to help a first nations family have a better chance than their ancestors had. Will it eventually have to end? Unequivocally, yes. But we have not yet done enough.
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Re: Strip them of the Status Card

Postby Corneliousrooster » Feb 2nd, 2009, 7:50 pm

nolanrh wrote:Will it eventually have to end? Unequivocally, yes. But we have not yet done enough.


What exactly have we done???? Giving a tax break on nativeland purchases ( i mean the goods sold on the land not the land itself) certainly isn't doing anything. I agree - the Social support to help rebuild the damage from systematic abuse should remain in place - but all the other BS needs to come to an end - it is doing far more harm than good in continuing the stigma towards Natives as a race.
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Re: Strip them of the Status Card

Postby ImRight » Feb 3rd, 2009, 7:20 pm

CaptainAwesome wrote:My views are a bit more radical - get rid of the privileges, status cards, status rights, bonuses, reservations, etc. all together. Nobody needs it. Are we all supposed to be equal?



I totally argree with you Captain, BUT untill you and me (government) deny a legal document (or at least make a new law against it), then the first nation people have every right to use their status.

At the same time we could blame our forefathers for signing these documents, and/or not killing them all off.

I'm glad that they didn't do the latter because - despite media - they have really good family values for the most part!
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Re: Strip them of the Status Card

Postby Glacier » Feb 3rd, 2009, 7:59 pm

I remember when the Reform party (under Preston Manning) proposed what you guys are talking about, and all the other political parties (including the PCs) as well as the mainstream media shot it down pretty fast.
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Re: Strip them of the Status Card

Postby Captain Awesome » Feb 3rd, 2009, 8:15 pm

ImRight wrote:
CaptainAwesome wrote:My views are a bit more radical - get rid of the privileges, status cards, status rights, bonuses, reservations, etc. all together. Nobody needs it. Are we all supposed to be equal?



I totally argree with you Captain, BUT untill you and me (government) deny a legal document (or at least make a new law against it), then the first nation people have every right to use their status.


Do you really thing at some point our gov't would say "Ok, that's enough apologizing on our part, let's stop it now and stop feeling guilty". Nah, it's just easy to keep throwing money at the problem.

I mean if Germany keeps doing it, then why shouldn't we?
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Re: Strip them of the Status Card

Postby ImRight » Feb 3rd, 2009, 8:30 pm

Don't know. But I hope that we can stop throwing money at them soon. The younger ones are learning a BAD leason from this(the world owes me a living).

Funny how us blockheads get thrown into this discussion though ( after they tried to cleanse the world).
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Re: Strip them of the Status Card

Postby ImRight » Feb 3rd, 2009, 8:33 pm

Glacier wrote:I remember when the Reform party (under Preston Manning) proposed what you guys are talking about, and all the other political parties (including the PCs) as well as the mainstream media shot it down pretty fast.


yes i did vote for him.
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Re: Strip them of the Status Card

Postby ImRight » Feb 3rd, 2009, 8:36 pm

nolanrh wrote:I can agree with yanking the status cards of those who abuse them. However, for me the special status is not about paying to absolve myself of the guilt of my ancestors; it's about attempting to repair the damage caused by them. Getting rid of status cards will not fix the problems experienced native people. The problems in the first nations community stem from many years of systematic abuse by our government and the citizens of our country. Obviously the programs in place today are not working as well as we'd like but I feel we should attempt to improve programs rather than the eliminate them all together. I am happy my tax dollars pay to help a first nations family have a better chance than their ancestors had. Will it eventually have to end? Unequivocally, yes. But we have not yet done enough.

:rate10:
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Re: Strip them of the Status Card

Postby Glacier » Feb 3rd, 2009, 9:00 pm

Corneliousrooster wrote:If our governments really want to make good - continue to give Native populations (status holders) free social services (counselling, education, training, support) for 50 more years - give a couple more generations a positive head start - Our ancestors did destroy their society, we at least owe that much.

Offering tax exemption on booze and smokes isn't helping anything. Getting a deal on gas or a hot tub does little for the Natives - causes racial divides among the community. Why our generation is paying for mistakes made 200-400 years ago (I know the mistakes continued on but that is where it all started) is beyond me.
I agree. The government is spending one $100,000 per year for every First Nation family of five on top of the tax exempt provisions. Surely there has got to be a better, more efficient way of helping them.

Giving tax exception is breeding a sense of entitlement amount some first nation leaders. The ones that take pride in progressing without government help are doing quite well. Osoyoos is an excellent example.

Other reservations I have spent time on as a child are still doing terrible as the leadership feels the "white man" owes them everything. In order words, they should have to make an honest living since the "whiteman" should be the ones serving them. After all, the whiteman is living on their land.

I have one friend that is going around getting he band members to perform ceremonies on the land they may or may not have traditionally lived on so that they can claim this land as part of their traditional territory in the upcoming land claims settlement. It is YOUR tax dollars going to good use.
Last edited by Glacier on Nov 9th, 2009, 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Strip them of the Status Card

Postby Corneliousrooster » Feb 3rd, 2009, 9:59 pm

Glacier wrote:I agree. The government is spending one millions dollars per year for every First Nation family of three on top of the tax exempt provisions. Surely there has got to be a better, more efficient way of helping them.


If that is the case - why does the government not just give each family of 3 - One million dollars this year as a nest egg grant , affording each family to be able to afford housing and amenities well above the National Average - and Call it DONE!

That would free up the 1 million dollars per native family of 3 next year - the natives would have millions of dollars to invest into the country (might even kill off the recession) which the appropriate taxes would be collected off of- A million dollars would probably sound pretty good to the majority of natives (far more than they are receiving now even with the tax breaks - I am sure the majority of the million dollars per family per year is absorbed in buerocratic Red tape)

Like removing a Band Aid - one quick motion

The PC - lets please everyone forever method is not working...
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Re: Strip them of the Status Card

Postby IMSICK » Feb 5th, 2009, 9:24 am

aginger1 wrote:IMHO The Status Cards should be pulled completely. Why should they get a break in taxes? Give me a break!!!!! :purefury:

agreed with that 100%
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Re: Strip them of the Status Card

Postby Glacier » Feb 5th, 2009, 9:35 am

Corneliousrooster wrote:If that is the case - why does the government not just give each family of 3 - One million dollars this year as a nest egg grant , affording each family to be able to afford housing and amenities well above the National Average - and Call it DONE!

Because most the money is lost in bureaucracy, and the money that actually does make it to the reservations is often scooped up by a corrupt Chief.

Federal Budget is $10,000,000,000 (10 Billion) per year for Indian and Northern Affairs. There are about 1 million First Nation, Inuit, and Metis living in Canada. Half of those live on reservations. Do the math.

Also, there are more natives in the care of the government today than there was at the height of the residential school system.

ETA: It is $100,000 for a family of 5.
Last edited by Glacier on Nov 9th, 2009, 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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