Gas prices

[Captain Awesome]

I got gas in Kamloops today. It was so cheap it felt like stealing. Sneaked out of there quickly before anyone caught on...

Nice.

I feel mighty awesome when I fill up my truck with diesel at 1.19 while suckers pay 1.31 for gas.

[Crazy Horse]

As you can see, Kamloops (supply point for the Okanagan region - the lower of the two blue plots) precisely tracks the rack prices in Edmonton which is the region Okanagan gasoline is refined at and piped into Kamloops from. Nanaimo on the other hand, supply point for the Island, precisely tracks rack prices in Vancouver.

Towards the end of April, Vancouver rack prices departed from "normal" relationships with the rest of the province and Canada, pushing pump prices in the lower mainland and the Island over a period of about a month to 8 - 10 cents a litre higher than "normal" relationships would dictate as reasonable.

IMO that action rests squarely at the gates of Chevron Corp. and their Burnaby refinery, (along with BC's dog's breakfast of a gas tax regimen). This is not the first time this situation has arisen (its a rather too common event it seems), and they know full well they have BC, its gas retailers, and way more than 50% of its residents captive to their whims and product pricing (usually called a monopoly). Rather an odd attitude for an American controlled subsidiary who would have a lot of problems with such behaviour on their side of the line.

And which is why I never have, and never will, reward a Chevron station with my business, (or ever again reward the BC Liberal/Socred Coalition with my vote, or any other government that allows, even promotes, lack of competition (or in its absence lack of regulation) to be the norm ;-) ).

I have to chuckle when BC people talk about boycotting Shell or Petro-Can Stations, when in fact if they really wanted to make an impact they would find a way to send a super strong message to American controlled Chevron - the real pump price driving culprit in BC. Yet somehow, because of their low profile as not one of "the big 3", they get a free pass through "Go". But hey, they have BC over a barrel as the only major refinery left in the province don't they......?

Nab

I'm not sure Chevron is entirely to blame for the rack prices in Vancouver. Since the spring their capacity on the Trans Mountain pipeline has been severely reduced, forcing them to bring in crude via rail to Langley, and then trucked to Burnaby. This is expensive. Also, don't forget Shell, Suncor, and Imperial all have terminals in Burnaby also, so they have a hand in current pricing. It seems to me Chevron accounts for roughly 30% of the gasoline supply in metro Vancouver.

[Charlie01]

http://www.castanet.net/edition/news-story--33-.htm

Wow. Finally an insider to the industry is having to use the same language the rest of us know. Must suck to be out of excuses.

[dodgerdodge]

http://www.castanet.net/edition/news-story--33-.htm

Wow. Finally an insider to the industry is having to use the same language the rest of us know. Must suck to be out of excuses.

And today i noticed that Shell had put theirs up another cent to 137.9???

[hobbyguy]

I dislike high gas prices, and was trying to think about how the price can be influenced. Then I started to think about how through social media, large groups can be put together to achieve fun stuff - or cause havoc like out of control parties.

Now if someone were tech savvy enough (I'm not), one could organize protest boycotts against high gas prices by affecting the demand for individual major producers.

For example, if gas prices go up, you pick one of the majors, and boycott that major until they say "uncle" and lower their price. One time you pick, say, Petrocan. The next time you pick, say, Esso. The trick is to do what they do to us: "divide and conquer". By picking on one at a time, if you get enough folks to drive past their station and to a competitor (regardless of the fact that the competitor also raised the price), it would have some impact - might even make them actually have some concerns about raising prices.

If the concept really got going, I wonder what the boardroom reaction would be to a Canada wide brand boycott for no other reason than they dared to raise their prices? How long would they stand the heat? It would be compounded by the fact that if a major didn't follow the crowd and raise their price, their volume would really jump.

[Captain Awesome]

Oh yes, the boycotting plan.

They always work.

[Charlie01]

Hey hobbyguy;

Much as I agree with you that the price of fuels has become too burdomsome for too many people, sadly a guy like CA is right, the boycott idea just doesn't fly.

First reason is that society; as in you, me and everybody else who hates the prices we're paying wouldn't be complaining if we weren't beholden to buying the stuff. We need it to get around until we can find some other method of getting around not tied to gas, diesel, propane or whatever and we'll buy it until then. To effectively manage a boycott we either stock up first or buy like mad afterward. Money lost today but gained at a different date isn't really going to bug the big guys.

Second is that in order for a boycott to be a real boycott, you really need to know who the refined fuel producers supply to. Many different road sign "brands" all get their fuel from the same producer. Sure a person can boycott PetroCan today but where does their fuel come from? If it's from the same basic producer as let's say Husky and somebody else and everybody goes to Husky and that somebody else, there's no gain in the inconvenience.

Really, the problem with prices is the Canadian consumer. We do nothing in regard to speaking up for ourselves as a population. Canadians aren't just gullibly polite, I think we're kind of chicken, somewhat lazy and there is a segment of society that claims to feel anywhere from okay to great about spending lots of money on something who sadly show a lot of hallmarks of serious little sibling or small man's syndrome. You know, "I'm one of the big guys, see? I can spend just as much!".

Anyway, psych 101 aside, yes, we are having to spend too much as a result of high fuel prices and it isn't only at the pumps - it's effected nearly everything we need for survival and it's diminishing the ability to survive okay for many people. The arguement that we should be glad we aren't living in Great Britian because of what they have to pay strikes me as pretty lame. We don't live in Great Britian or some other place that can't produce enough fossil fuel to meet needs. We DO live in Canada - that's the place fossil fuels come from. Go back far enough our Federal government sold us out. Meek, chicken, somewhat lazy Canadians never should have allowed our governments to go ahead and make our resources available for foreign ownership. But we did nothing effective to stop it or correct it since. Many will argue that we "needed" that outside-of-Canada money invested in our economy. Why? So that ultimately we would be at the mercy of corporate greed while our own political bodies benefit far more than society?

How many people remember what a gallon was? We are at the age tipping point where more consumers today only know litres than those who remember a gallon - of milk - or gas - or the outrage our grandparents and some of our parents felt when a gallon of gas hit .68 cents. A Canadian gallon was 4.54 litres, not 4 or some other measure method of convenience. If he weren't already in his grave, my father would drop dead if you told him his kids would be paying over $6.00 a gallon for gas before they were old people themselves. Like it or not, just quietly accepting the Canadian metric system without holding anybody's feet to the fire in regard to assured regulation for consumer benefit was one of the most stupid things we allowed. Who the heck does government work for? They've turned it around completely and we slave to support them.

Fuel prices and the impact? When more people lived a little closer to the land, they understood where food came from and how it came to be in the local market. I'm not even going to hint at tilting this rant towards what has happened to meat and produce as that's a whole other disgusting issue, but I'm going to use a staple like bread. Can't have it without grain of one sort or other. Most cereal (grain) crops require a piece of machinery powered by usually diesel to pass over the land it grows on from 5 to 7 times per crop (annual or bi-annual). If you think that farmers get their fuel for mega-cents a litre less than we pay at the pumps, you are misled. Marked fuel isn't significantly less expensive anymore. So, when fuel is 6 or 7 times more expensive than it was 30 years ago, one would expect a loaf of bread to run at least the same amount more. Except farmers aren't being paid 6 or 7 times more for their product. In most cases in ordinary years (this year isn't ordinary - there's been a significant drought in North America) cereal grains pay only maybe 2 to 2.5 times more than they did 30 years ago. That ought to put a loaf of bread on the shelf at it's regular price around $1.35 or so........Let them eat cake, right? Anyway, we all know that isnt the price we're paying, but do think about the impact of all the other things effected by fuel price to get that loaf of bread from the farmers field to the store. Transport to a grain terminal, sometimes grain drying so it can be safely stored, transport to a mill, distribution to bakeries, delivery to stores and so on. Everybody is paying more along the production route and you can rest assured everybody is covering their costs, their profit margin and a little bit more and the governments at both Federal and Provincial levels are smiling away while they make out like bandits and tell us what we have to do next for the priviledge of supporting their racket. Cool, huh?

Rant is over.

[coffeeFreak]

Why is gas only $1.29 in Vancouver even though they have the added gas tax? And it's only 1.19 in Abbotsford. Also, I've heard it said that a boycott doesn't work, but the prices in Merritt are now a couple cents lower than they are in Kelowna rather than the approx. ten cents higher than they were last year at this time. I do believe this was a result of a community, as well as truckers making a concerted effort to bypass the Merritt pumps.

[Glacier]

One reason gas is typically more expensive in Kelowna is that it's not on a major transportation route, unlike Merritt or Kamloops. Kelowna is very insular in that most of the traffic is people living in the city or staying for a few days. Thus they are forced to buy gas before they leave town.

[grammafreddy]

I think the problem with high gas prices is the taxes on it - not the $ the oil companies charge for it. Anybody got a breakdown on how the pump prices are arrived at and how much is taxes of one kind or another?

If taxes are the problem, then government is the problem, too.

[GordonH]

I think the problem with high gas prices is the taxes on it - not the $ the oil companies charge for it. Anybody got a breakdown on how the pump prices are arrived at and how much is taxes of one kind or another?

If taxes are the problem, then government is the problem, too.

Since the only tax increase on gas in over a year has been carbon tax the rest has not changed so I don't no were you are coming from grammafreddy.

Motor Fuel Tax is...... .145 cents per litre (outside the lower mainland & Victoria)
Carbon Tax is........... .0667 cents per litre
Federal Excise Tax.... .10 cents per litre
GST........................ 5% based on the amount purchased

So the only tax increase on gas over the last 2 years (Jan 2010) has been to carbon tax Jan 2010 it was .0333 per litre now it .0667 an increase of .0334. So GF someone else has their hand in the cookie jar on this one.

[xjeepguy]

One reason gas is typically more expensive in Kelowna is that it's not on a major transportation route, unlike Merritt or Kamloops.

The fuel trucks still have to drive to Merrit from Loops and turn around to refill again , just like they would do here . Unless you know something I don't ?

[Glacier]

The fuel trucks still have to drive to Merrit from Loops and turn around to refill again , just like they would do here . Unless you know something I don't ?

I was referring to regular transportation traffic. Trucks and other vehicles going from Vancouver to Deadmonton go through Merritt, Kamloops, Blue River, etc. Traffic between Vancouver and Calgary goes through Merritt, Kamloops, Revelstoke, etc. Traffic from Vancouver to Northern BC generally go up through Cache Creek, Williams Lake, etc. Traffic from Vancouver to the Kootenays goes through Princeton, Osoyoos, Grand Forks, etc.

There is almost no instances where traffic goes through Kelowna. Osoyoos to Salmon Arm, sure. But those are not exactly major hubs, nor are they really outside the local geographic area.

In this respect, Merritt gas stations have to compete with Kamloops a lot more than Kelowna needs to compete with Kamloops.

[grammafreddy]

I think the problem with high gas prices is the taxes on it - not the $ the oil companies charge for it. Anybody got a breakdown on how the pump prices are arrived at and how much is taxes of one kind or another?

If taxes are the problem, then government is the problem, too.

Since the only tax increase on gas in over a year has been carbon tax the rest has not changed so I don't no were you are coming from grammafreddy.

Motor Fuel Tax is...... .145 cents per litre (outside the lower mainland & Victoria)
Carbon Tax is........... .0667 cents per litre
Federal Excise Tax.... .10 cents per litre
GST........................ 5% based on the amount purchased

So the only tax increase on gas over the last 2 years (Jan 2010) has been to carbon tax Jan 2010 it was .0333 per litre now it .0667 an increase of .0334. So GF someone else has their hand in the cookie jar on this one.

Thanks. I was kinda meaning other hidden things - surcharges on various aspects, things we don't directly pay at the pumps but which are passed along to us under the cloak of darkness.

[GordonH]

What surcharges GF please.

........Rack price is .869
Taxes I mentioned .3117

= 1.1807
now add GST of about .051

you get 1.2317 cents - your current $$$ of 1.339 = .1073 cents remaining

Which more than likely is combination of what the local retailer gets + maybe the transportation costs.

So please show us where these hidden taxes are.

Definition of Rack Price:
Rack price is the price at which refineries sell gasoline to their various clients. These clients can include wholesale gasoline sellers or even gas stations themselves. The type of gasoline they sell includes branded or unbranded types.