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Cashless society... you in?

Social, economic and environmental issues in our ever-changing world.

Re: Cashless society... you in?

Postby domain » Jan 4th, 2017, 6:12 pm

forum wrote:Freedom never involves money in any shape or form.


If your comment was in regards to the freedom to choose what you deem to be money, or the medium of exchange between your labor for the necessities that you need, then I would agree. If that wasn't your point, then I would agree if you were talking about the freedom to wander forest or the streets, hungry and cold, which certainly does not require money.

But I was referring to economic freedom, where one would not be forced to use financial institutions for every transaction that they make, subject to taxation, scrutiny, or the immobility of capital. That type of freedom...

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Re: Cashless society... you in?

Postby Queen K » Jan 4th, 2017, 7:02 pm

There's another type of freedom forum may be referring to, but that is for a different type of convo altogether.

Money gives freedom. Simple as that. Free to travel, make choices. Really it does.
Our saddest days are when we add up our losses, and losses seem to be our saddest when we lose our best. Proud to be a "Leaf-licker" and I know who else is too. **smiles**

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Re: Cashless society... you in?

Postby Queen K » Jan 4th, 2017, 10:10 pm

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 333172.cms

Cashless society in India now a reality. E-Wallets. Poor vendors forced to "go with the digital flow."

Unable to handle customer demand. Having to put transactions on hold until they can get help for their kids.
A certain generation forced to learn fast or get left behind.
Smaller merchants seeing their larger competitors get more customers and ahead financially.

The Government can track it all.

All of it.

And if it can happen in a country with billions of people, it can happen anywhere.
Our saddest days are when we add up our losses, and losses seem to be our saddest when we lose our best. Proud to be a "Leaf-licker" and I know who else is too. **smiles**
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Re: Cashless society... you in?

Postby forum » Jan 8th, 2017, 12:17 am

How can the government track how many fruits and vegetables you grew in your garden last year? And how many fruits and vegetables you traded for chicken eggs? :up:
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Re: Cashless society... you in?

Postby Bpeep » Jan 8th, 2017, 1:41 am

Queen K wrote:There's another type of freedom forum may be referring to, but that is for a different type of convo altogether.

Money gives freedom. Simple as that. Free to travel, make choices. Really it does.

Money and good health provides for the best freedom I've ever experienced.
♡ Unlike. You like this post.

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Re: Cashless society... you in?

Postby Queen K » Jan 8th, 2017, 7:27 am

http://www.wsj.com/articles/is-indias-w ... 4?mod=e2fb

India, forcing people who made cash under the table to put their money into accounts and allowing them only half the penalties that will apply later.
Our saddest days are when we add up our losses, and losses seem to be our saddest when we lose our best. Proud to be a "Leaf-licker" and I know who else is too. **smiles**
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Re: Cashless society... you in?

Postby zzontar » Jan 8th, 2017, 9:03 am

GordonH wrote:
Yes, by keeping cash in system. It also keeping the criminal element going.



I would imagine that if a dealer used to exchange drugs for money which he would spend on electronics, expensive toys, etc. that now he would be exchanging drugs for electronics, expensive toys, etc. which would most likely be stolen first.
They say you can't believe everything they say.
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Re: Cashless society... you in?

Postby Queen K » Jan 19th, 2017, 9:08 pm

Queen K wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hyderabad/roadside-vendors-go-digital-to-tide-over-cash-crisis/articleshow/56333172.cms

Cashless society in India now a reality. E-Wallets. Poor vendors forced to "go with the digital flow."

Unable to handle customer demand. Having to put transactions on hold until they can get help for their kids.
A certain generation forced to learn fast or get left behind.
Smaller merchants seeing their larger competitors get more customers and ahead financially.

The Government can track it all.

All of it.

And if it can happen in a country with billions of people, it can happen anywhere.



^^^^^ Remember all the above?

Well I talked to a man who is living in India and asked him about how it is going with their cashless experience.

Here is his answer, copied and pasted from facebook with his permission and blessing.

Here goes:

We are facing hard times, economy is in shambles, money is still in short supply, rich are doing business of Rupees. Selling currency to those who have no means. How a country can be cashless where fifty percent population is not even literate and forty percent sleep without two square meals. Unfortunately uneducated lot has acquired political power in India because of corruption and without any sense of governance, they have already sent their black money out of country and now trying to make people fool by phrase of cashless. Corruption has increased many fold, riots are common, workers are loosing jobs and industry is destroyed. Cashless has proved a drama only.
Our saddest days are when we add up our losses, and losses seem to be our saddest when we lose our best. Proud to be a "Leaf-licker" and I know who else is too. **smiles**

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Re: Cashless society... you in?

Postby Woodenhead » Jan 20th, 2017, 1:15 pm

Dumb to do something like that without ubiquitous supporting infrastructure. India isn't an argument for or against it - they were essentially trying to build a snowman on the Sun. It'll happen with no big issues when we're ready for it.

UBI will come first, at any rate.
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Re: Cashless society... you in?

Postby Queen K » Jan 26th, 2017, 8:41 pm

Woodenhead wrote:Dumb to do something like that without ubiquitous supporting infrastructure. India isn't an argument for or against it - they were essentially trying to build a snowman on the Sun. It'll happen with no big issues when we're ready for it.

UBI will come first, at any rate.



Ah but Woodenhead, be careful what you ask for. As in read the next post's link carefully for yourself and ask yourself what the "ubiquitious supporting infrastructure" is going to look like and how is it going to be built?

Their "snowman on the sun" is might have flaming hair right now but as the article says, they had to look at the problem up side down, through undocumented people in the black economy.
Our saddest days are when we add up our losses, and losses seem to be our saddest when we lose our best. Proud to be a "Leaf-licker" and I know who else is too. **smiles**
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Re: Cashless society... you in?

Postby Queen K » Jan 26th, 2017, 8:41 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inn ... d0a69a6df9

Silicon Valley fancies itself the global leader in innovation. Its leaders hype technologies such as bitcoin and blockchain, which some claim are the greatest inventions since the Internet. They are so complex that only a few mathematicians can understand them, and they require massive computing resources to operate — yet billions of dollars are invested in them.

India may have leapfrogged the U.S. technology industry with simple and practical innovations and massive grunt work. It has built a digital infrastructure that will soon process billions more transactions than bitcoin ever has. With this, India will skip two generations of financial technologies and build something as monumental as China’s Great Wall and America’s interstate highways.

A decade ago, India had a massive problem: nearly half its people did not have any form of identification. When you are born in a village without hospitals or government services, you don’t get a birth certificate. If you can’t prove who you are, you can’t open a bank account or get a loan or insurance; you are doomed to be part of the informal economy — whose members live in the shadows and don’t pay taxes.

In 2009, the government launched a massive project, called Aadhar, to solve this problem by providing a digital identity to everyone based on an individual’s fingerprints and retina scans. As of 2016, the program had issued 12-digit identification numbers to 1.1 billion people. This was the largest and most successful I.T. project in the world and created the foundation for a digital economy.

India’s next challenge was to provide everyone with a bank account. Its government sanctioned the opening of 11 institutions called payment banks, which can hold money but don’t do lending. To motivate people to open accounts, it offered free life insurance with them and made them a channel for social-welfare benefits. Within three years, more than 270 million bank accounts were opened, with $10 billion in deposits.

And then India launched its Unified Payment Interface (UPI), a way for banks to transfer money directly to one another based on a single identifier, such as the Aadhar number.

Take the way that credit-card payments are processed: When you present your card to a store, the cashier verifies your signature and transmits your credit-card information to a billing processor such as Visa, American Express or MasterCard — which works with the sending and receiving banks. The billing processors act as a custodian and clearing house. In return for this service, they charge the merchants a fee of 2 to 3 percent of the transaction. This is a tax that is indirectly passed on to the customer.

With a system such as UPI, the billing processor is eliminated, and transaction costs are close to zero. The mobile phone and a personal identification number take the place of the credit card as the authentication factor. All you do is to download a free app and enter your identification number and bank PIN, and you can instantly transfer money to anyone — regardless of which bank he or she uses.

There is no technology barrier to prevent a UPI from working in the United States. Transfers would happen within seconds, even faster than the 10 minutes that a bitcoin transaction takes.


India has just introduced another innovation called India Stack. This is a series of secured and connected systems that allow people to store and share personal data such as addresses, bank statements, medical records, employment records and tax filings, and it enables the digital signing of documents. The user controls what information is shared and with whom, and electronic signature occurs through biometric authentication.

Take the example of opening a mobile-phone account. It is cumbersome everywhere, because the telecom carriers need to verify the user’s identity and credit history. In India, it often took days to produce all the documents that the government required. With the new “know-your-customer” procedures that are part of India Stack, all that is needed is a thumb print or retina scan, and an account can be opened within minutes. The same can be done for medical records. Imagine being able to share these with doctors and clinics as and when necessary. This is surely possible for us in the United States, but we aren’t doing it because no trusted central authority has stepped up to the task.
Our saddest days are when we add up our losses, and losses seem to be our saddest when we lose our best. Proud to be a "Leaf-licker" and I know who else is too. **smiles**
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Re: Cashless society... you in?

Postby Woodenhead » Jan 27th, 2017, 2:10 pm

Queen K wrote:Ah but Woodenhead, be careful what you ask for. As in read the next post's link carefully for yourself and ask yourself what the "ubiquitious supporting infrastructure" is going to look like and how is it going to be built?

Their "snowman on the sun" is might have flaming hair right now but as the article says, they had to look at the problem up side down, through undocumented people in the black economy.

I did, and I don't buy what they're selling. And I didn't ask for anything. ;)
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Re: Cashless society... you in?

Postby averagejoe » Feb 10th, 2017, 2:49 pm

Well, well look who's behind cashless society....

2 of the biggest cheerleaders of globalism....

German Economist “Bill Gates & George Soros Are Promoting The Cashless Society Agenda Everywhere.”

Ecclesiastes 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left.
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Re: Cashless society... you in?

Postby averagejoe » Feb 10th, 2017, 3:04 pm

Cash No Longer King: Europe Accelerates Move To Begin Elimination Of Paper Money

In the shadow of Donald Trump’s spree of controversial actions, the European commission has quietly launched the next offensive in the war on cash. These unelected bureaucrats have boldly asserted their intention to crack down on paper transactions across the E.U. and solidify a trend that has been gaining momentum for years.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-1 ... aper-money
Ecclesiastes 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left.
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Re: Cashless society... you in?

Postby averagejoe » Feb 28th, 2017, 12:35 pm

Canada next on war on cash?

In the Banker War on Cash, New Zealand and Canada Are the Next Major Countries on the Banker Hit List

http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1485705600.php
Ecclesiastes 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left.
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