Transsexual living in the Okanagan. Questions?

[CatherineC]

Since it's pride weekend and all, I thought I'd put something like this up in case anyone is interested.
You post a question, I post an answer.
I might ignore your question, but I probably won't. Please keep this PG, although I'm sure the mods will do that for you if you can't. I know it's sometimes hard to put some things in words, don't worry about accidentally insulting me, I have pretty tough skin.
I know quite a bit about the topic and I've done a lot of research (I'm considering going back to school to get a Masters or a PhD)
I can talk a fair bit about the science side of things, current theories on why it happens, etc, I can talk a bit about psychology and I can talk a bit about the transition "process". Or some of the legal ramifications, etc. I also have a bit of knowledge about gender variant peoples in other cultures / throughout history.

I'm "male to female", late 20s, spent most of my life here in Kelowna. I started my transition in late 2008, which might not seem like a long time, but it sure feels like it's been a while :)

If anyone wants to send me a private message, you can PM me through Castanet and I'll be happy to answer questions privately.

[strwbrrydvl]

Good for you, even with the anonymity given online it is very brave to share and be open to questions from a bunch of strangers. Good luck to you in the rest of your transition and congrats on becoming the gender you feel you were born to be.

I do have questions:
Do you have to go to Vancouver or elsewhere for the hormones and surgeries or is there someone/thing local?
Are you 'going all the way'? I have seen many programs with individuals who lead the life of a certain gender and take hormones but choose to leave their 'plumbing' alone.
Do you have a supportive family (I sure hope you do!!) and what was their reaction? Did they somewhat have a hunch or was it a complete shock?
You are a male to female.. Are you attracted to women or men?

...just curious.

[mrj222]

do you notify potential partners? or are you with someone and do they know?

[mlsram]

Wow you are brave to join this forum!
Curious to know when you knew you were meant to be a female?
Did you play with dolls and want to wear girls clothes when you were a child?
The transition must have been a big step as well as a huge expense!
So when will you be completely transformed?
Are you actually feminine looking or can people tell?
Also what was the most painful procedure?
I hope your family and friends have been supportive during all of this.......

[CatherineC]

=D> Good for you, even with the anonymity given online it is very brave to share and be open to questions from a bunch of strangers. Good luck to you in the rest of your transition and congrats on becoming the gender you feel you were born to be.

Thanks

Do you have to go to Vancouver or elsewhere for the hormones and surgeries or is there someone/thing local?

When I went through the process, I had to go to Vancouver to see a psychologist. Once I had gone through the necessary steps (over a lot of visits), I was referred to an endocrinologist (hormone specialist) there.
Even though I had the financial resources to pay for everything out of pocket and was able to take the time to do that, I knew others here didn't. I bugged a ton of people at interior health until they started something - as of about a year ago there are medical / psychological resources here.

It's a lot better now, although I still see my endocrinologist in vancouver (I think he's better and the tax break for medical travel is nice.) My GP isn't really involved in the process.

Surgeries are handled really oddly. Some stuff is done in BC, some stuff isn't. It's basically a political issue. There is a Vancouver doc who has trained in how to do these surgeries, but he can't get OR time. It seems that they're going to continue to farm out MTF surgeries to a surgeon in Montreal, which is fine with me since he's quite skilled. Travel is out out pocket and there are hospital fees, etc, that are out of pocket. FTM surgeries are a complete mess and FTMs usually pay out of pocket even though some surgeries are technically covered.

Are you 'going all the way'? I have seen many programs with individuals who lead the life of a certain gender and take hormones but choose to leave their 'plumbing' alone.

Personally, yes.
Some people have an incredibly hard time dealing with their birth genitals, some don't. It's a personal choice, but there are a lot of practical reasons not to get bottom surgery.
The technique is quite good in the case of MTFs, but it's not perfect and I know some people have reservations. For FTMs, the surgery can be rather primitive although it is improving (there are a few different types of surgeries for FTMs, so it's hard to say)
Sex workers know their careers are basically finished if they have the operation. Unfortunately a part of the trans community has to engage in survival sex work because they can't find employment.
There are people who are self described "non ops" but I don't really understand them.
I think the #1 reason is going to be money. Not everyone has the financial resources to do so, especially if they're unable to get a decent job.

Do you have a supportive family (I sure hope you do!!) and what was their reaction? Did they somewhat have a hunch or was it a complete shock?

Not really. My family is strongly roman catholic and this has caused some significant issues. I've been disowned by one sibling and it's caused a both of my parents quite a bit of stress. Obviously, it's not something that parents expect to hear. I feel really bad about how they feel, but I am completely certain that I wouldn't be here if I didn't transition and I don't think that would be any easier on them.
Mom seems to be in denial and thinks it's a complete surprise, but I don't think my dad is "as surprised" if that makes any sense. I was always pretty feminine as a kid and "there were signs" and even though he doesn't want to admit anything, there are a few "now THAT makes sense"

You are a male to female.. Are you attracted to women or men?

I hate to do this, but "It's complicated" I was asexual until I started my transition and this whole sexuality thing is new to me. No dates, no kisses, absolutely nothing.
Over the years, I developed a great deal of misandry, internalized homophobia and transphobia and I'm still working through all that, but I'm pretty sure I'm exclusively attracted to men, at least in a visceral sense.
I'm still keeping options open though, I'm far more interested in what's between someone's ears than what is between their legs. I don't want to rule out the possibility of a female life partner.

[strwbrrydvl]

Do you have a supportive family (I sure hope you do!!) and what was their reaction? Did they somewhat have a hunch or was it a complete shock?

Not really. My family is strongly roman catholic and this has caused some significant issues. I've been disowned by one sibling and it's caused a both of my parents quite a bit of stress. Obviously, it's not something that parents expect to hear. I feel really bad about how they feel, but I am completely certain that I wouldn't be here if I didn't transition and I don't think that would be any easier on them.
Mom seems to be in denial and thinks it's a complete surprise, but I don't think my dad is "as surprised" if that makes any sense. I was always pretty feminine as a kid and "there were signs" and even though he doesn't want to admit anything, there are a few "now THAT makes sense"

I am so sorry to hear that you've been disowned by a sibling. That must feel more than horrible, hopefully they'll come around one day and realize that you are the same you. That does seem strange that your mother is in more denial and shock over it than your father. One would think that a male would feel stronger emotions towards their son becoming a daughter then a mother would.

You are a male to female.. Are you attracted to women or men?

I hate to do this, but "It's complicated" I was asexual until I started my transition and this whole sexuality thing is new to me. No dates, no kisses, absolutely nothing.
Over the years, I developed a great deal of misandry, internalized homophobia and transphobia and I'm still working through all that, but I'm pretty sure I'm exclusively attracted to men, at least in a visceral sense.
I'm still keeping options open though, I'm far more interested in what's between someone's ears than what is between their legs. I don't want to rule out the possibility of a female life partner.

I understand asexuality, I know an individual who identifies themselves as asexual and definately is. That makes sense that you were not sure who you were attracted to prior to starting transition - it must have been confusing figuring out who you were and discovering the path to reach that. A good partner will come your way. Did you have a hatred of men because you were angry with your body for being what it was, and not what you feel it should be? When you were internalizing feelings of homophobia and transphobia what was going on in your life? Do you think it was because of your Catholic upbringing, or was it perhaps because you had a fear of starting your journey?

[CatherineC]

do you notify potential partners? or are you with someone and do they know?

I do. I have no experience dating so I have no clue how this would work in the future. I sort of fell into my first and current relationship, "it just happened" and he knows.
I think it should be mentioned at some point in the relationship, but obviously it complicates things. If you're publicly listed on a dating site as a trans woman, you tend to get guys who are either think you're a sex worker or guys who want to bottom (and I know something like that would never work for me).
Aside from the ethical side, there's always the very real possibility that you can get killed or be beaten up if you don't.

To out yourself to a potential partner takes an immense amount of courage and personal strength. No clue how other people manage to do this.

[CatherineC]

Wow you are brave to join this forum!

LOL, is it that bad here? ;)

Curious to know when you knew you were meant to be a female?

It's weird. This whole condition manifests itself in the subconscious. For me, it was never "obvious", it was more day dreaming of a machine that would make me a girl. Or putting on my mom's makeup. Or choosing to be the female character when acting out something.
Or just acting feminine on the playground to the point where the other kids felt they had to check.
So many of these actions were completely instinctual, they didn't need a reason, they just happened. I was 5 or even younger.

Eventually, I understood that something was "wrong" especially "down there" and I started saying nightly prayers and praying that I'd wake up "right" but I still didn't get it.

I did grow up in a conservative household, so I didn't have access to any resources (besides, this was the 80's) I think my first real exposure was when the family went to san francisco and we saw an obviously trans sex worker and my dad started insulting and making fun of her. I still didn't get it (how, etc), but I knew I was not alone (and that people hated us)

I can't really point to a specific "wow" moment. It was more a gradual thing and it never really needed a decision except for "do it" or "don't"

Did you play with dolls and want to wear girls clothes when you were a child?

Didn't really have dolls around. There was a time period where I completely shut down and did nothing but escaped reality immersed in a book (I <3 nancy drew!)
I did wear / make girl clothes but I started to hide it (would fall asleep, etc)

The transition must have been a big step as well as a huge expense!

Pretty big step. Depression followed by unbelievable stress and fear. I lost over 20% of my body weight in under a month.
For what it's worth, I probably took one of the hardest possible routes, but compared to that, the rest has been and felt easy.

As for expense, it's not been that bad.
It's probably taken less than 7k to get me to where I am today. Laser to kill facial hair is $160 a session in vancouver, $250 here, hormones are $130 for 3 months. Trips to vancouver for a psychologist were $100 in fuel, plus a hotel stay and $100 for the session.
Buying clothes cost a fair bit, I'd usually come back from vancouver with $300 of stuff from thrift stores or the sears outlet. I'm fairly lucky in that. Some people spend a lot more.

So when will you be completely transformed?

If by this you mean bottom surgery, you have to live 1 year full time in the target gender and prove that you can find work or continue living life (going to class, volunteering)
Then there is some waiting period for an evaluation by a board of psychologists, doctors and psychiatrists and then sometime after that you get a surgery date if you can put up the deposit.
So it's going to be a while. I'll be really upset if the world ends in 2012 ;)

When you take hormones, you through a second puberty. It took 8-10 years last time, it takes 8-10 this time.

Are you actually feminine looking or can people tell?

This is so frustrating, I don't know. I'm somewhere between androgynous and feminine.
The old "me" looked like my brother and I've had people who I hadn't seen in 6 months walk right by me when looking for me even when I was in "boy mode".
If I had to guess... If I'm wearing feminine clothes or even have the tiniest bit of makeup on, you'd probably never tell. I've been pretty much everywhere in Kelowna and haven't heard any sort of comment except for lesbian, dyke, etc in a while.
If I go out dressed androgynously, its a toss up. Some people gender me female, some male. Mostly female nowadays.
Or maybe everyone is being polite, I don't know, but I don't think so. It is a smaller town, so it's easier to pass here since people automatically gender you either male or female and not something else.

Also what was the most painful procedure?

Laser hair removal on the face. It's like someone is drizzling boiling oil on your face. Other than that it's just been the occasional blood draw, nothing too big. I haven't had any facial surgery or anything like that, but that is worse than the bottom surgery. They basically slice off your face, expose the bone and either shape it in place or remove sections of bone, shave them and then put everything back together. 13 hours in the OR under general anesthesia and your face is so swollen for a week you can't see.
I'm pretty sure I won't get that, but some of us do.

[fvkasm2x]

Yes it is that bad here... but you are actually lucky.

Your "situation" is so far out there and "confusing" to most people, the rude people, trolls, etc... will just not comment.

I am one of the bigger jerks on here and even I can't come up with something to turn this into a thread I can "get into." It usually isn't fun bashing people who admit they have a tough way of life.

Kudos to you and good luck in life.

[StraitTalk]

How soon did you feel you were the wrong sex? (Hope I'm putting that correctly.)


Would you say, in your experience, that more people are discovering themselves in this way as society gradually gets more comfortable with it?



Is it purely psychological?

[CatherineC]

I am so sorry to hear that you've been disowned by a sibling. That must feel more than horrible, hopefully they'll come around one day and realize that you are the same you. That does seem strange that your mother is in more denial and shock over it than your father. One would think that a male would feel stronger emotions towards their son becoming a daughter then a mother would.

*shrug* I try not to think of it so much.
It's religion. The sibling who disowned me thinks that dinosaur bones were put into the earth's crust by satan to make us question our faith, that oil was put there by god so we could use it to spread the word of the lord and thinks gay people should be publicly executed.
It's hard for me to take her seriously and I think she's chosen to burn that bridge.

My mom goes to church 6-8 times a week and went a lot before. She's not educated and lacks critical thinking skills. She goes, a priest tells her
- to pray and if she does it hard enough god will "cure" me
- if she doesn't pray hard enough, he won't
- that my "condition" is punishment for her sins.

I don't want to attack religion, but this is sick. It's cruelty. It's the intentional infliction of emotional abuse. And I know that I'm not the only one who has been harmed by them.
I'd say more, but this isn't the "Catherine's view of religion" thread.

I understand asexuality, I know an individual who identifies themselves as asexual and definately is. That makes sense that you were not sure who you were attracted to prior to starting transition - it must have been confusing figuring out who you were and discovering the path to reach that. A
good partner will come your way. Did you have a hatred of men because you were angry with your body for being what it was, and not what you feel it should be? When you were internalizing feelings of homophobia and transphobia what was going on in your life? Do you think it was because of your Catholic upbringing, or was it perhaps because you had a fear of starting your journey?

It was interesting. Some of it was amazingly obvious, some of it, not so much.

About hate and phobias, there's really so much there that it's hard to sort it all out.
I can't say that my religious upbringing wasn't responsible, although I don't want to use it as a cop out either. I do know that "praying to god to make me female" eventually switched to "praying to god to make me normal"
Add to that open homophobia, "god sent aids to kill the gays" and stuff like that. I'm not saying this because I want pity or something, but it clearly influenced my development. Once I realized this wasn't going to change, there was a period where I started to hate god for making me the way I was. That's when it got really bad. It wasn't the anger, it was the fact that by that time I had labeled myself as a deviant, wrong and going to hell, etc. And from there I think you naturally fall into a cycle of anger, self loathing and reckless behaviours. There was a decade of that mixing together and simmering and I'd rather not elaborate. I was an angry kid that hated everything, including myself. Puberty on top of that didn't help, but I don't think it was as significant for me, the kid who was deeply religious who felt betrayed.

And because I hated myself for who I was, it wasn't possible for me to consider transitioning until I got over that - in my mid to late 20s. Besides, this would be around the early 90s and the psychological and psychiatric community was basically involved in malpractice in their handling of gender variant kids. It was probably a good thing that I didn't get to one of the gender clinics.

If you want to read a bit about that, take a look at this.
http://www.brainchildmag.com/essays/fal ... kinson.htm
And note that Dr. George Rekers (the "scientist" who thinks you can cure gay people but was found a few months ago with a male escort from rentboy.com) is involved.

[CatherineC]

Yes it is that bad here...

I have lurked on here for a while, so I know that this site has it's fair share of ugliness. I was just making fun.
*shrug* I've been through a lot. It's going to take more than some twerp on the net to get to me.

Kudos to you and good luck in life.

I can't find the smiley toasting with a beer glass, but just pretend you're seeing it ;)

[Queen K]

Go to the bottom of the first smilies you see,
Click on "view more smilies"
Click on "2" at the bottom
Beer clickers are on that second page.

Thanks for this thread. All kinds of people are bewildered about who they really are, some do what you did, some suffer all their lives.

[MAPearce]

I have no questions....I'm glad you are happy!!

[CatherineC]

How soon did you feel you were the wrong sex? (Hope I'm putting that correctly.)

It was pretty early. 5-7? If you're asking for that "moment", it's a bit hard to say because of how it happened for me. I tend to remember things by "which house I lived in at the time" so it was sometime during that range.
I know there are kids that firmly state their gender identity at that age or even younger, but that wasn't me. Some people finally "get it" years later.

Would you say, in your experience, that more people are discovering themselves in this way as society gradually gets more comfortable with it?

I don't think it's more common nowadays, I just think less people repress it and it's a tiny bit more OK to be visible. In the 60s and 70s, people still transitioned, but the gender clinics were set up in such a way that they demanded that you divorce your partner if you were married, sever all ties to your past, your family, your friends, everyone and move to a different city. And you would tell nobody, ever. In a way, that policy helped hide transsexuals from the general public (it also erased someone's support structure at a time when they arguably needed it the most)

But we're starting to see people who have been "stealth" (perfectly integrated and completely secret) come out now. It's possible - one even posed in Playboy and was a Bond Girl.

A big part of this perceived increase is because trans people aren't killing themselves. The suicide and suicide attempt rates are incredibly high.
A 2007 UK Government commissioned study surveyed 872 transgendered people and discovered that 34% of participants had attempted suicide at least once, with 14% of participants having attempted suicide three times or more (Engendered Penalties: Transgender and Transsexual People’s Experiences of Inequality and Discrimination - Whittle, Turner, and El Alami).

The actual rate is higher. The above numbers don't take into consideration "successful" suicides, nor do they take into consideration anyone who killed themselves / tried before talking to anyone about this.
In comparison, Canada's overall suicide rate is about 14 per 100,000 people or 0.00014%
Nobody tracks attempts in Canada, it's hard to do this because people tend to claim "it was an accident"
But as a general rule, for every 8-10 attempts, there is a "successful" suicide.
I'm not sure if it's the highest rate in any social group, but it's likely in the top 5.
It is my firm belief that these are all preventable.

There might also be an increase in the rate because of hormone disrupting chemicals from industry. We don't really know because we don't have the data from before and don't even really have the data now. When we are in the womb, there are extremely critical times when we are sensitive to chemicals, especially in terms of sex differentiation (i.e do you grow a penis or do you stay with just a clitoris? does the urethra set "properly" or does it come short?), sexuality, and gender identity.
If a woman pregnant with a male baby touches the dust from a broken Proscar tablet (male hair loss pill) during a certain period, that will lead to serious birth defects. It doesn't take much.

Is it purely psychological?

Not according to theories. They've done studies with autopsies on a region of the brain called the BSTC - basically one part of the brain is either bigger or smaller depending on the gender of the person. Trans women (like me) had a similar size BSTC to cis (not trans) women.
Gay men had a similar sized BSTC as straight men and they also did checked people who were on hormone treatments (for prostate cancer, etc) before they died to see if hormones added as adults affected the size. It didn't.

These studies have been done with rather small sample groups (n=42) which I'll admit makes them of limited use. I'd like to see a study of somewhere on the order of 1000 samples, but I don't see it happening anytime soon since this requires people cutting open the heads of 1000 cadavers.

They've also seen oddly shaped androgen receptors in mtf transsexuals which means that testosterone doesn't affect us as strongly as it should.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18962445

There's a few other theories. We know we can make mice and other mammals "gay" (or is it trans?) by messing with their hormones in a certain stage of development. We're never going to see anything like that in humans because you'd never get a ethics board to approve it.

We do know that you can't "fix" it. They've tried pretty much everything and nothing worked. Gender identity is set by birth and can't be changed. There have been a few cases where male infants were sexually reassigned because of a botched circumcision and raised female. It didn't work, it caused the kid to commit suicide later in life and his brother killed himself a few years after that. Horrible outcome.
Dr. John Money was the doctor, David Reimer was the victim although there were other patients as well.
After that, there is no way anything like that would receive clearance from an ethics board. There is a limit on what we can study because this can cause a significant amount of harm.

EDIT: add link to a study.
Journal of Clinical Endocinology and Metabolism
Male-to-Female Transsexuals Have Female Neuron Numbers in a Limbic Nucleus
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/85/5/2034.pdf