Why is it hard for low income families?

[TyrianQuill]

Sometimes survival is dependent on our sacrifices.

I sacrificed privacy and part of my home for years by renting out a room. We no longer have the same constraints as we once did, but we often discuss what we can/are willing to give up when things get tough. I say 'when' because I think it's foolish to think it won't happen; I know all too well it can... overnight.

So, what are you willing to give up when the fit hits the shan?

 
 
For me, I know how I emotionally “react” (e.g. the word 'sacrifice”) and so my approach is “what I am willing to do to get what I want?”

One of the aspects of lifestyle can be how one “feels.”

This difference, which admittedly many may only see as semantics, is for me the difference between me perceiving I’m struggling away, versus, me living the life I want; different outlooks produce different vistas.
Admittedly every once in awhile I get down, but them I am remeinded of "what I want" and get back intouch with- that I like what I am doing and “feel good” about it.

[Piecemaker]

...maybe giving up smoking and drinking when you are on social assistance or in a low income bracket or behind in your credit payments would suffice and you can still have your take out....

life choices, that is all they are. and to have them you first have to have life skills and coping skills.

I wonder how all the low income types are going to afford xmas trees this year, $40 with tax! incredible... vroom chain saw up the logging road.... free unless you get caught.... so a littlle hint.... check around ... you can get permits to go and get the wild ones if you want the experience.... but $40 for a pine tree in pine tree country.... unbelievable....

Certainly it is a healthier choice to eat well than to smoke or drink. That's making the assumption that neither are addictions that require assistance (assistance that costs money) to recover from one or both addictions!
Do you really think that everyone owns a chainsaw and has a vehicle and the fuel for both?! You should be wearing proper protective gear to operate a chain saw as well. Forty dollars for a tree could turn out to be a bargain! Lots of people use artificial ones and small table-top ones they have scored from somewhere to avoid having to pay for a fresh one every year.

[omisimaw]

I think you will find that many take out the permit and go out and cut their own tree to avoid the price.... I was making a point about the price, not the fact someone would have or have not a truck/saw to go and get a tree.... this can be done as a group if need be and certainly the opportunity exists locally to get a free tree if one wants.
By the way it is $50 to start if you live in the lower mainland, so even less money for the food .... cause you have to have the tree LOL
Oh and you could just use a regular saw borrowed from a neighbour instead of a chain saw.....

[Woodenhead]

I just skip out on the tree completely.

Most of us can live without the internet, as well, but it is a necessity if it is needed for your job or if you have kids in school.

Saving on food is great, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to rent & mortgage.

One thing that drives me nuts is how our technology & culture has advanced, but our "means" hasn't. I also wonder how much our "stuff" would cost if we didn't have 2nd and 3rd world nations to rely upon for cheap labour.

[TyrianQuill]

 
During my growing up, there was, out of a seven day week, one day reserved for consuming “our soup” and one back burner of the old wood stove reserved for the soup pot all seven days of the week. Bones were kept out baked to a sheet pan then boiled to make a really good stock. “All” other leftovers (leftovers meaning everything excluding non bone/cartilage and gristle parts, all raw scraps cleaned, and any and all remaining food left on plates) were added into the soup pot and slowly rendered into a marvelous surprise “our soup.”
For “our soup day” the soup was always accompanied with a marvelous loaf of piping hot yummy bread just out of the oven, lots of cheese butter and some even different condiments.

Yes I understand the feeling of “have to have a tree,” when I was a single Mom, one year I just could not get a tree, but still I felt we just had to have one, so I presented the concept to my son that we were going to do something very special … we were going to build ourselves a tree, which we went about, and after three days of designing and building, we did have a Christmas tree (of sorts). Now, to this day (and my son is now 36 years old with a son of his own and a job with an income I suspect would outweigh any member’s here income) my son reminisces about that time and our own special tree we built.

My son and I practiced that year, that it is not the tree that is the thing about this season it is not the presents nor is the partying and entertaining that is what is important; it is the spirit that is the important thing of season.

An old saying “money is not important, the lack of money is.“

In most cases we each live in/on a pyramid-of-choices.

In present day living we all have veered so far, few actually know the difference between need and want (essential and non-essential.)

There was a poster a bit back in this thread that had the audacity to express that it is a person's choice to live as they do, to which many many jumped all over the him. Though very poorly communicated I think this is what that poster was trying to convey. Yes situations happen, tragedies occur, but it's not what happens in one’s life that is the true determining factor of the outcome but rather it is “how the person response” that really has that creates the impact.

But, back on the main content of the OP thread, there are many many factors that are part-in-parcel to living a low income life: income versus costs, mental stability and endurance, life skills, support network … and so on and so on. It is a very convoluted subject as so many are, it is not a simple to untangle.
 

[grammafreddy]

I've never used a chain saw to cut my tree in the bush - always a hand saw.

I agree that cutting down expenses to meet budget restraints is a mindset a person/family must make. If one considers it a burden/forced/negative thing, then that's exactly what it will be. If it is thought of as a positive/saving/getting out of debt thing, then it is more do-able and with that ultimate goal in mind and knowing how good it will finally be when you achieve that goal, it just becomes easier.

I think of it as a game, too. I get a great deal of satisfaction form "outsmarting the man" whether that "man" is the shopkeeper or a corporation or whatever. My money is mine to spend or save as I choose and when I can keep more of it, I am happier. That's my ultimate goal - for me to be happy. I do not care if the corporate giant's kid has an ipod or a big screen TV in his bedroom. I don't let myself charge things or buy things so that that person/corp can have what they want! What I want is to stay out of debt and pay my rent and other necessary bills.

While I am only a single household person, a lot of the ways to save money can be applied to families, too. For example, is it really necessary for all family members to shower every morning? How dirty they get each day determines that. A man working in a dirty or physical job may come home filthy and need to shower. A kid just going to school may be able to shower every two to three days and have what my mom used to call "bird baths" in between - a good wash in the bathroom sink with a facecloth. Ditto for someone who works in an office. Hair can be washed using much less water in the kitchen sink (has a higher tap than the bathroom one). A little vinegar in the final rise water makes hair squeaky clean and gets rid of soap residue, too.

Cooking meals as a family rather than everyone doing their own thing can also be a way to cut expenses. Meals can be made cheaper and healthier by not eating on the run and by cooking in bulk - preparing larger meals and using and freezing leftovers for other suppers and lunches later. Family bonding can be done at the dining room table instead of in the car or in front of the TV. Cell phones can be turned off until after dinner and the dishes (and tomorrow's brown bag lunch) are done.

If you are an apartment/condo dwelling family, a garden is still possible. Community gardens and friends/family/co-workers with yards can be options. Container garden is another option - on your balcony in floor and hanging containers and on trellises.

Choosing to do fewer of the organized "pay money for" activities is also a way to save money for families. My daughter is a single mom and she and her son each do one paid activity per season. They both downhill ski, they both play baseball, he races at the local BMX track, she runs the track concession and also is the first aid person, he plays soccer. He also has a weekly paper route that gives him spending money and savings - he is not allowed to blow his whole pay - the bulk of it goes into his savings account (and it has a very hefty balance after 3 years of delivering papers, too).

I think when a family sits down to figure out how they can live for less, they will find all kinds of ways to lessen the drain on their pocketbooks if they really want to. The internet is full of ways to save money these days because so many families are hurting. All the old ways of living on less are coming back into play again and there's enough older people still around to learn more from.

But first, you have to want to.

[Piecemaker]

Just going back to the original question posed in the OP, I would say that some people don't know how to manage money regardless of how little or how much they have.
However there are a couple of things that really put the stress and distress in poverty. One is lack of affordable housing. That means rent and utilities. Whatever it takes to provide and maintain shelter. Another is the inability to have any money in reserve for emergencies...or to stock up when things are on sale. There are people who live paycheque to paycheque and month by month...for years! They don't have anyone to provide a "bailout". They can make all the good choices about how their money is spent and be most frugal, but the bottom line is that it takes money to live.
It is particularly difficult for the low income "families", as they have members who need to eat, be clothed and so on who don't contribute in the form of earning an income from employment. A single person or couple of adults can more easily balance out contribution and consumption at minimum wage than a family can. On Income Assistance (welfare) no one fares that well. Those on disability who can work some and/or volunteer fare the best as they are not deducted dollar-for-dollar as the rest are.
Poverty/lower income is an issue that is far more complex than many on here realize. If it were that easy to have a higher income with its accompanying higher standard living there would be a lot less "poor" people. Very few people, if any, set themselves a life-goal of struggling in that dark place known as poverty.

[Catz]

Lots of interesting points.

My sacrifice is myself. I give to the kids first, then me.
They do play sports, but I encouraged them and will not take that away now.
I go without shoes, clothes, etc for them.

I do a lot of home cooking and baking, and freeze meals for left overs.
Rarely do things go to waste.
You have to remember I have 3 teens,,,yes they NEED to shower every day.
I don't, so a quick wash at the sink does me OK.

Where I can buy used or reuse from people I do.
I have put a limit on Christmas and my kids have been told what it is all about...I do that everyday, anyway.
They know there are way less fortunate than them.

I don't do Christmas cards anymore and cut where I can.
It is interesting to see what I need to change.

Things are going to get a bit harder for me, so like to read your over all ideas.

Thank you.

[Queen K]

I agree Peicemaker, but let's look at the foundation of it all, education.

We are all attending the same high schools no? Some have more motivated teachers than others, some have parents who are more with it than others. Some have more internal motivation, having nothing to do with socio-economic forces around them. Some have less internal motivation, geez, I know someone waiting for the inheritance. Some just don't connect their lack of motivation to do WELL to a larger picture after graduation. They think if they "pass" they are doing okay, but having no idea that those around them and in other schools are doing more than just "passing" but excelling. Those are the kids who will get accepted for programs with limited seats. Not everyone in higher education excels, nor does it automatically translate to high income. Just that it might.

Some people just see that they are making a paycheck, but not seeing the glass ceiling. I truly believe that when they hit a certain age, they see the ceiling. They have to make a decision, make their financial choices smarter if they have less to play with, less income to dispose of, isn't that what we are talking about when we say "low income"? I know very smart people in a low income situation they just choose to be in a different type of profession than most.

Not one of them had a goal to struggle in the eternal dark of poverty either.

Some make decisions not to give their money to certain entitites.

Big Tobacco, big Alcohol, Drug cartels, VISA, Mastercard, banks, casinos, the multi-billion dollar ready made food industry, gaming, texting and cell phone Co.s, porn sites, and on and on. So the high income person might, but may not be ahead of the income person in terms of debt load. But let's face it, low income is just that, there isn't a lot of bux left at the end of the last payday, or month. I see no end in sight for things going up in price either, just having to perservere with cost cutting and creative ways to live.

[JOF585]

Just going back to the original question posed in the OP, I would say that some people don't know how to manage money regardless of how little or how much they have.
However there are a couple of things that really put the stress and distress in poverty. One is lack of affordable housing. That means rent and utilities. Whatever it takes to provide and maintain shelter. Another is the inability to have any money in reserve for emergencies...or to stock up when things are on sale. There are people who live paycheque to paycheque and month by month...for years! They don't have anyone to provide a "bailout". They can make all the good choices about how their money is spent and be most frugal, but the bottom line is that it takes money to live.
It is particularly difficult for the low income "families", as they have members who need to eat, be clothed and so on who don't contribute in the form of earning an income from employment. A single person or couple of adults can more easily balance out contribution and consumption at minimum wage than a family can. On Income Assistance (welfare) no one fares that well. Those on disability who can work some and/or volunteer fare the best as they are not deducted dollar-for-dollar as the rest are.
Poverty/lower income is an issue that is far more complex than many on here realize. If it were that easy to have a higher income with its accompanying higher standard living there would be a lot less "poor" people. Very few people, if any, set themselves a life-goal of struggling in that dark place known as poverty.

Finally ... back on topic. Thank you. Best post in a while. Tired of reading about food and unrelated subjects.
Low income and poor people is just that. No money at the end of the day to save or go downhill skiing. I personnaly feel sorry for them and there is way too much stereotype on this thread. They obviously have never met the real poor people.

[Queen K]

There are those who are really really well off who made it a practice to cry poor all the time and now that they have well over $500,000 banked they don't know how to stop. In their heads they are always poor and on the brink, won't even change their landline corded phone into a non-corded, portable phone, even when that very thing may save their life. Or know it's time to buy new underwear.

Then I've met those who are truly poor. They are in subsidized housing surrounded by what is left of their possessions. They only get certain pensions. They are not having fun, enjoying their retirement. For whatever reasons, something happened, everyone's got a story. Illness in the number one, it is very sapping to be ill, and on every level.

We probably all know one or the other. And it gets exhausting to never be able to be of real help to either.

[TyrianQuill]

Poverty/lower income is an issue that is far more complex than many on here realize. If it were that easy to have a higher income with its accompanying higher standard living there would be a lot less "poor" people. Very few people, if any, set themselves a life-goal of struggling in that dark place known as poverty.

I fully agree, the weight of trying to survive is a very heavy burden in deed and one that hits one’s energy stamina physical and mental health and outlook in life.

[Piecemaker]

I agree Peicemaker, but let's look at the foundation of it all, education.

We are all attending the same high schools no? Some have more motivated teachers than others, some have parents who are more with it than others. Some have more internal motivation, having nothing to do with socio-economic forces around them. Some have less internal motivation, geez, I know someone waiting for the inheritance. Some just don't connect their lack of motivation to do WELL to a larger picture after graduation. They think if they "pass" they are doing okay, but having no idea that those around them and in other schools are doing more than just "passing" but excelling. Those are the kids who will get accepted for programs with limited seats. Not everyone in higher education excels, nor does it automatically translate to high income. Just that it might.

We all may attend the same schools, but that doesn't mean we all receive equal education. For starters, some struggle with diagnosed or undiagnosed learning disabilities. Some just go to school and breathe and they excel, others work very hard to make a passing grade.
When there is extreme stress in a child's home (poverty, mental illness of parent/sibling, domestic violence, alcoholism, drug misuse, death/serious illness of close family member, lots of moves, divorce, absences and tardiness, children placed in foster care, cultural barriers, sexual abuse, physical abuse...and so on) it MAY result in gaps in learning. Vulerable times are when a child is learning to read, for example. Early adolescence is another significant developmental time. There are people who have times of their childhood that they simply can't remember. They may have attended school every day, but they weren't "there". It's like the black-out of a very intoxicated person. They don't remember a thing. Learning doesn't happen for them and once they get behind...
There is also a strong correlation between good self-esteem and success. Many occupying school desks don't feel very good about themselves. They don't REALLY believe in themselves, even if they function behind a mask of bravado invisible to all but the very astute.
Yes, there are those among us who truly had terrible starts in life that went on to achieve great things. They aren't the "norm".
Also, education past high school can be costly...and many individuals have to support themselves at the same time. Yes, it can be done but it isn't within the grasp of everyone and it isn't reasonable to think that it is. Difficult to pull one's self up by the bootstraps when you're barefoot.

(Besides taking training or a course doesn't automatically translate into being hired, especially when you've had a lifetime of emotional abuse, poor health and dental care and weren't born physically attractive with the type of hair that doesn't require a stylist to look great. I've known of more than one "poor" person take a couse and just end up with a student loan on top of the load they are carrying in life.)

Yeah, there are some lazy people. But what I've seen more is tired and worn out people who don't see their future being any better than their difficult past.

[normaM]

 
During my growing up, there was, out of a seven day week, one day reserved for consuming “our soup” and one back burner of the old wood stove reserved for the soup pot all seven days of the week. Bones were kept out baked to a sheet pan then boiled to make a really good stock. “All” other leftovers (leftovers meaning everything excluding non bone/cartilage and gristle parts, all raw scraps cleaned, and any and all remaining food left on plates) were added into the soup pot and slowly rendered into a marvelous surprise “our soup.”
For “our soup day” the soup was always accompanied with a marvelous loaf of piping hot yummy bread just out of the oven, lots of cheese butter and some even different condiments.

Yes I understand the feeling of “have to have a tree,” when I was a single Mom, one year I just could not get a tree, but still I felt we just had to have one, so I presented the concept to my son that we were going to do something very special … we were going to build ourselves a tree, which we went about, and after three days of designing and building, we did have a Christmas tree (of sorts). Now, to this day (and my son is now 36 years old with a son of his own and a job with an income I suspect would outweigh any member’s here income) my son reminisces about that time and our own special tree we built.

My son and I practiced that year, that it is not the tree that is the thing about this season it is not the presents nor is the partying and entertaining that is what is important; it is the spirit that is the important thing of season.

An old saying “money is not important, the lack of money is.“

In most cases we each live in/on a pyramid-of-choices.

In present day living we all have veered so far, few actually know the difference between need and want (essential and non-essential.)

There was a poster a bit back in this thread that had the audacity to express that it is a person's choice to live as they do, to which many many jumped all over the him. Though very poorly communicated I think this is what that poster was trying to convey. Yes situations happen, tragedies occur, but it's not what happens in one’s life that is the true determining factor of the outcome but rather it is “how the person response” that really has that creates the impact.

But, back on the main content of the OP thread, there are many many factors that are part-in-parcel to living a low income life: income versus costs, mental stability and endurance, life skills, support network … and so on and so on. It is a very convoluted subject as so many are, it is not a simple to untangle.
 

That was sweet of you to share and I appreciated it. I wish you all the best for the New Year

[Catz]

Well said.
I am sacrificing now for my kids.
One at least will get a scholarship.
He earned it, and so did I by giving up my dream for them.
I go with out every day for them, but give them what they need, not want.
At the end of the day, if he or all 3 get a scholarship, get an education and end up doing well for themself, then I have done well.

In the mean time...

Like I said before, I am a well educated woman who could support a family of 5, then...well...the unthinkable happened.
Just be more prepared than I was, and *bleep* hapens.