Sociopaths and Psychopaths in Society

[Captain Awesome]

What you are describing is how a psychopath justifies their actions to themselves.

I was simply explaining that people are not created equal. Some people are hard drivers, some people are pushovers. It starts in kindergartens, progresses through high school, and finally comes to full swing in real life, in work places, in politics, in organized crime, everywhere. There's no need to justify it, it's just the way things are.

[SILENCE]

maybe a tad off topic but....perhaps having a lack of empathy and compassion is a necessity in acheiving the highest levels of productivity. Although deplorable - the sociopath may be irreplacable in the highest levels of world commerce as their "cold hearted" approach ultimately creates the stabilty we rely on because they are uniquely suited to making the hard, life altering decisions that would stymie the god/family loving average joe.

[Polywog]

I have to disagree.

Business and Politics, what affects us all the most, have poor leadership entry requirements, as anyone can get into them...

business aint that difficult...it is not like it is war up close and gruesome.....yet the big boys act like they are at war and think a few "casualties" is ok.....when they concoct a war.....and that all is fair if you get away with it in court.

In terms of difficult task.....the business of war on the ground is the most demanding, and requires a model that individuals can succeed...or, unlike business, in war, you dont lose share value, you lose it all

It needs to find and amplify the best individuals, or else.

So what is the most successful model that individuals gather to conduct, the business of war, currently? What are the characters of their leaders?

For the west, it is the SEAL Team / SAS Troop models and their Officers. What are the qualities they know are required in individuals and leaders to meet the real world? How do they run their company?

How do you develop such true leaders? It is a formula that is well understood by some, and as you can see in the first video, it is rapidly expanding into the general public.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33x4SGeNmL0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvWvALj085g

[kina]

To Polywog^^^

I know that you are a Navy SEAL, (or former Navy SEAL) so I realize that the above post is something that hits home for you and is very personal and true to you since you have lived it. But I have to say that as admirable as it is the way these men are trained to push themselves while still supporting each other as a team and acknowledging the fact that they have their own personalities and boundaries, I cannot fully agree with your post above.

First of all, I wish to address the parallel you made between war and business. You claim that business is nothing like a war. In a way, you are correct. But that's only because war is a business as well. You have forgotten the fact that the military is still an entity in whose interest it is to have constant conflict and if one doesn't exist, then to create it. It is not a peacekeeping organization, it is a war making organization. Declaring a battle is a decision just like any other made by a few men at the top who will benefit out of it. At their feet they lay thousands of innocent men who mistakenly believe they are fighting for a cause when in fact all they are fighting for is bringing the top guys oil, weapons, or an extra part of the dirt on the earth to claim as their own. The glorification of death, to me, is sickening still, no matter what intentions those young men had. They are manipulated and led on like any other. Which leads me to discuss the second video you posted.

That one man who was labeled as too arrogant to take on the job was in fact given the gift of a lifetime when they acknowledged that he just doesn't fit in. The reason they didn't like him is because he followed his own beliefs and his own moral convictions and values. He is one that would actually question the thing that the leaders expected of him and would ask himself whether he felt it was the right thing to do or not. Regardless of how much he wanted to fit in, his belief in himself was unshakable to the point where he got kicked out of training. At that point, instead of realizing that this was only a proof that he wasn't a follower like the rest of them but one who was capable of supporting and leading others, he began to doubt himself and felt defeated. That only shows what the military truly needs: blind followers who will believe what they are told and follow any orders, even murder. Which, finally, brings me to the first video.

It is nice that the SEALS are taught that they need to support each other and respect one another's decisions. Being in a team where your lives depend upon each other, this is what is needed and necessary. But the video didn't say anything about what the SEALS are taught in regards to their supposed "enemy". How are they portrayed in the eyes of the soldiers? Would an enemy combatant be considered as a human and a valued life or not? Murder is murder, no matter if you knew the person or not, were on opposing sides or not, or had different values and beliefs or not.

What I'm trying to say is that the rules should apply to everything. Because certain individuals are being given the right to kill and are being honored as heroes for it, it creates the false pretense that certain actions are allowed considering which job position you hold. That is why business people act as thought a few financial "casualties" are ok. That is why politicians act as though they are above the law. That is why teenagers act as though they are invincible and untouchable no matter what they do. Our views in society are connected and are influenced by what we witness and what we experience. So please, don't say that one set of rules can apply to one set of individuals but not to others.

[Polywog]

*off-topic/Jo*

[Polywog]

I was simply explaining that people are not created equal. Some people are hard drivers, some people are pushovers. It starts in kindergartens, progresses through high school, and finally comes to full swing in real life, in work places, in politics, in organized crime, everywhere. There's no need to justify it, it's just the way things are.

Do you realize that your statement is an effort to Justify it as being, "just the way things are"?

Is this what you say to yourself? Are you a psychopath? Do you engage in negative behavior with a consistency or pattern?

We are talking about individuals, who, not only have observable, marked behavior differences than the masses, but ALSO are seen under MRI to have a different brain physiology....and that these people are well known to have negative effects on others.

Do you really not get it? Psychopaths are coldly rational over others...they have simple ways to Justify what they think and do.

The Eskimos, identified these psychopathic people in their culture, even had a special name for them, and they only knew of one solution.

51:00 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU0FBm1NuF0

[magreg]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMG1qjpzNPg&feature=related
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMG1qjpzNPg&feature=related[/youtube]

Excellent video- I think many child molesters must be psychopaths. The big problem is that they can fool psychologists or
psychiatrists and judges because they are such practiced liars. They aren't seeking to be cured or have their condition managed, they just want to get away with their deceits. They are actors who know how to behave normally in front of the people they want to impress. They know what feelings they should display to convey the image they want to project.
This is one reason the court's love of a guilty person's "showing remorse" is so lame. A psychopath is merely sorry they got caught.

[empath]

The questions originally posted were do you know one, how to recognize them and deal with them. I am acquainted with one. It's not possible to say "know". Once I started reading about sociopaths, I found that the traits were present all along. They were typical: the pity play, too much confidence. Also in agreement with what others have written, there was a lack of recall on his part about when something had happened etc., that should have tipped me off that things just weren't important to him in the normal way. My gut told me all along that something was off, but for some reason it seems that it bothers our conscience to think someone lacks one. I'm certain of my conclusion regarding this person but nobody else seems to be willing to buy it, despite having had all manner of complaints about him in the past. In order to recognize them, people have to be willing to. They comprise 1-4% of the male population.

The fishhead video was comforting to watch, if broad on the subject. I am glad that was posted. As for the notion of herd awareness, how is that to be achieved?

There has been some defense of sociopathic traits here. I agree, he wasn't all bad but looking back I feel like I ordered a burger then found out it was one of these Japanese feces meats... exactly the opposite of what I thought I was having.

[tincanjam]

I think my boss is a sociopath path, we don't get any breaks or overtime despite it being hard physical labor. This is the first boss I have worked for that expects us to not talk to each other while we are working. I think even slaves in the nineteenth century were often allowed to sing or talk to each other while they picked cotton, worked on the railroads etc. It is not that this even affects productivity, I think he just tries to make things miserable.

Worst of all any personal phone calls get people fired. My daughter has type 1 diabetes and I am the her primary caregiver when it comes to managing insulin, highs, lows and diet. She occasionally (usually once every week or two) needs to ask advice during the day. I always feel like I'm on the edge of being fired for it. Last time he waited till the whole crew was together before he reamed me out and threatened to fire me. I have to answer calls in case she had passed out or something, this particular call was not for me and I hung up on him because he kept asking questions but that wasn't enough for my boss.
Today I had to come home because she had a fever and seemed a bit delirious, I think this has been the third time in the last year that I have had to go home for her. A bit creepy knowing that this puts me further on the edge of being fired.

[Captain Awesome]

Whatever happened to our NAVY SEAL friend? Is he off to another super-secret mission?

[>jim<]

I think there's an interesting angle here that may be easy to miss... In the past, sociopathic behavior could certainly be successful and lead to victories in many arenas, battle, business, politics et cetera - however, as the human race as a whole achieves a greater degree of control over our environment, that same cold, selfish decision making ability may cause the demise of the planet as a whole due to grievous ignorance of the cycles of life. Selfish gains on a macro scale cost us a healthy and safe future, toying with variables affecting a scale we cannot fathom. This may well be the downfall of the human.

[empath]

I agree with you on this one Jim, but between the really big issue and the smallest personal one, lies the bit that interests me, and hopefully others.
I want to start with consideration of Jenna, the he/she beauty queen. The thread on here shows many men agree she's gorgeous. But unless I skipped something, there's resistance to willingness to date her. Why?

[empath]

" A recent estimate by the neuroscientist Kent Kiehl placed the national cost of psychopathy at $460 billion a year — roughly 10 times the cost of depression — in part because psychopaths tend to be arrested repeatedly. (The societal costs of nonviolent psychopaths may be even higher. Robert Hare, the co-author of “Snakes in Suits,” describes evidence of psychopathy among some financiers and business people; he suspects Bernie Madoff of falling into that category.) "

Maybe not so productive.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/magaz ... ral&src=me

[A29]

i'm curious on personal stories anyone has. i've known quite a few sociopaths, ones that manipulate and twist things that they actually have said and done and accuse you of doing it instead. claiming that you make things up, that you create situations when it's them doing it. publicly humiliating you, using things you might struggle with as a personal attack and belittling you...minimizing your feelings and thoughts and telling you instead what THEY think you should think or feel. maybe some of this is more narcissistic-type stuff too.

they claim they are the victim of situations they've actually created and try to turn others against you so you feel like everyone they know hates you. or doing something they claim is to help you or somehow benefit you when it's really just about them and then throw it in your face..guilt trip you when you don't do what they want...react with anger when you simply try to make a point and are accused of just arguing instead. accuse you of not communicating when you try, but no matter what, if you do not agree with them or do what they want, you are such a horrible person and will 'punish' you or threaten you. and it's always YOU who is wrong, lying to people about what they have done/said, etc. you end up feeling like you are insane and try to figure out what it is you are doing wrong, how you can try to react/respond so they won't treat you like they do...but in the end, you will always be wrong.

[magreg]

YES, every point you made resonates- and with a pedophile/child molester, it's even easier for the psycho because he's manipulating CHILDREN