Trayvon and the stand your ground law.

[steelrules]

In light of police not being able to be everywhere and claims of being over worked.
In light of the real or percieived rising violent crime rates in Canada.
In light of the human right of self defence
Do you think we should adopt a "Stand Your Ground" law here in Canada similar to that in Florida?.

[Captain Awesome]

How is Stand You Ground law different from Canadian self defense laws?

[steelrules]

How is Stand You Ground law different from Canadian self defense laws?

I think you should ask that of prosecutors and police, why do they arrest anyone who stands his ground, why do they arrest and take guns away from law abiding people who do nothing more than have an unloaded gun in hand to intimidate a criminal out of their home or off their property.
Why do they arrest anyone that makes a citizens arrest?

[Captain Awesome]

No, I really didn't know what "stand you ground" law is. Off to wikipedia I go.

[5VP]

Hard to explain how it feels when you feel genuinely threatened to those who haven't (yet) had a life threatening experience/situation.

When a situation like this erupts, experience combined with solid weapons and self-defense training and having the right mindset are the most effective tools to have dictating your immediate actions and I'm not just talking about having a certificate from the latest "Boot Camp" fitness craze being taught by elitist members of the Steroid Army; although good fitness is an important component of bettering one's chances for survival in general.

Quite often a flight v. a fight may be just as dangerous to your life in a given situation.

Good training gives you the know how to stay calm, be confident and ,if necessary, to automatically consider when or how to apply training in the use of deadly force in order to sort a situation out more effectively and preferably before it gets out of control in the first place. It may not always just be your life alone that is being threatened.

During military boot camp and subsequent service, I experienced training that I now often refer to as "the next level of weird", where most humans never go and where not many are even capable of going.

The military and some elements of policing train at levels beyond the niceties of UFC fighting skills combined with weaponry.

This however takes practice, practice, practice...

This is why it is, if possible, generally better to have the police respond for the average John Q Public but; if this type of self-defense law is to remain as a deterrent to crime anywhere there has to be a associated mandatory self-defense training/awareness program, in my opinion.

This would at least establish the boundaries for citizens and criminals alike.

Many European countries with low crime rates have mandatory military service for all citizens where all the citizens keep firearms at home.

The more people that are trained among the populace the less likely that a rogue criminal or psychotic shooter will be successful and/or a thug exonerated.

IMHO...

[coffeeFreak]

Here's an article to ponder how this law can backfire.

Stand Your Ground laws coincide with jump in justifiable-homicide cases

By Marc Fisher and Dan Eggen, Updated: Saturday, April 7, 11:17 AM
When Billy Kuch knocked on the wrong door, he had a cigarette in one hand and a shirt in the other. The homeowner, Gregory Stewart, stepped outside, stood his ground, fired a round from his semiautomatic into Kuch’s chest, and in the eyes of the state of Florida, committed no crime.

Three years after that shooting, in a Land O’ Lakes subdivision called Stagecoach Village, Kuch is alive but damaged by his injuries and the shock after being shot at point-blank range. Stewart is free but laying low, still sought out by neighbors and others who want him to account for his actions.

“I have no problem with people owning guns to protect themselves,” says Bill Kuch, Billy’s father. “But somehow, we’ve reached the point where the shooter’s word is the law. The victim doesn’t even get his day in court. I don’t think most Americans realize it, but that’s where we are.”

In Florida and across the country, “Stand Your Ground” laws — the same kind of legislation that authorities cited for not arresting the neighborhood watch volunteer who killed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Florida in February — have coincided with a sharp increase in justifiable-homicide cases.

Prosecutors still reject many claims of self-defense under the new law, and there are no long-term studies definitively tying the rise in justifiable killings to the passage of laws that relieve citizens of the responsibility to back away from threats. But the Martin case has focused a spotlight on cases in which the mere statement that people feel endangered allows them to — depending on your sense of what’s right — defend themselves against thugs or act like vigilantes.

This sharp turn in American law — expanding the right to defend one’s home from attack into a more general right to meet force with force in any public place — began in Florida in 2005 and has spread to more than 30 other states as a result of a campaign by the National Rifle Association and a corporate-backed group called the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), which promotes conservative bills.

Florida has been at the forefront of expanding gun rights for decades, ever since an NRA lobbyist named Marion Hammer, the NRA’s first female president, became a force in the state capitol in Tallahassee. When she helped write the Stand Your Ground bill and circulated it, some police chiefs and other law enforcement officials warned that the measure would make it hard to convict murderers, some of whom would simply claim self-defense and challenge prosecutors to prove they were lying.

But those concerns were heavily outweighed by lawmakers’ desire to send a message to taxpayers that the justice system would no longer consider suspect those who defend themselves against attack.

In the aftermath of the 2001 terrorist attacks and amid images of lawlessness in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina, many Floridians — and Americans generally — felt less safe and believed the justice system could not protect victims, said a study of Stand Your Ground laws by the National District Attorneys Association. [read more]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/stand-your-ground-laws-coincide-with-jump-in-justifiable-homicide-cases/2012/04/07/gIQAS2v51S_story.html?tid=pm_national_pop

[SassySasquatch]

What we need in Canada is a law that promotes standing your ground against stupid laws, which, there seems to be in abundance. Just a thought. (race notations were unnecessary and foolish, My Apologies to those who were rightfully offended). - see below...

[coffeeFreak]

What we need in Canada is a law that promotes standing your ground against stupid white people, which, there seems to be in abundance. Just a thought. See my post Re: Canada Forum and enlighten yourself. Sorry for offending all the smart, white people. Just because - Stupidity exists in all races equally but it seems the scales of justice are pre-disposed to one particular population (western civilization) here in Canada - Everything came from the GREEKS - OMG!

SS, if someone posted the same way you have but referred to stupid "Indians" I would imagine you would be screaming racism...your post is offensive and serves no purpose in furthering this discussion.

[SassySasquatch]

Absolutely its offensive - that's the point. Let us create a fair and balanced society based on true scales of justice rather than the money based 'just us' system we have now. That is, that all cultures and therefore humanity have a collective degree in the creation of Laws and that processes can be accomplished by not just one racial group and their belief systems but by all facets of the human condition.



(this edition was heavily edited due to sober second thought).

[steelrules]

Never mind SS, as you can see the racisim card is easy to put in play but those who do seldom realize they them selves are racist.
As for the Travon shooting perhaps SS has been fooled by the MSM into thinking this was a 12 year old innocent boy with a bag of candy that got shot by a white guy.

Of note is that Travon was 17yr. old 6' 2" tatooed football player recently suspended from school with an alleged history of gang assocations, as for Zimmerman the shooter he sure dosen't not look white to me in his picture.

One should also take note that if the police believed Zimmerman acted in self defence that's what happned unless evidence proves otherwise.

Is the MSM working with the government to go after 2nd amendment rights? or trying to start a race war?

[SassySasquatch]

Re-read your post but first, pull your head outta the sand! Zimmerman is Hispanic and as for 2nd Amendment Rights, are you a transplanted American?

[steelrules]

Re-read your post but first, pull your head outta the sand! Zimmerman is Hispanic and as for 2nd Amendment Rights, are you a transplanted American?

Another troll just what Castanet needed.
I didn't want to use the word hispanic as he may have no connection to Iberia, he may just be latin American, capiche?

No not a transplant from the US, a born and raised Canadian, who believes in stand your ground laws and open carry "for law abiding citizens".

[Captain Awesome]

Hard to imagine Canada having something similar to second amendment or open carry law.

[Oxl3y]

Never mind SS, as you can see the racisim card is easy to put in play but those who do seldom realize they them selves are racist.
As for the Travon shooting perhaps SS has been fooled by the MSM into thinking this was a 12 year old innocent boy with a bag of candy that got shot by a white guy.

Of note is that Travon was 17yr. old 6' 2" tatooed football player recently suspended from school with an alleged history of gang assocations, as for Zimmerman the shooter he sure dosen't not look white to me in his picture.

One should also take note that if the police believed Zimmerman acted in self defence that's what happned unless evidence proves otherwise.

Is the MSM working with the government to go after 2nd amendment rights? or trying to start a race war?

Jesus you are actually supporting Zimmerman??? You are a monster.

[averagejoe]

steelrules is creating a new conspiracy theory.

Here comes nebula and his conspiracyphobia again. He see's a conspiracy around every corner.