Lost art of forgiving - a huge social concern

[omisimaw]

Discussion about crimes related to Child Pornography can be a very hot, emotionally charged topic. However the law is pretty clear, and when someone is charged with a crime of this nature they are entitled to both respect and the presumption of innocence, until such time as they are convicted by the courts.

These laws on the surface read almost as seriously as if it were a charge of murder; however the sentences and releases are all over the map. Trying to get a better understanding, I sought to read up on current day sentencing in Canada of persons convicted of varying child pornography crimes. The first thing I came across was an organization of stated Christian activists who seem very interested in the subject, as well as other child/sex/bullying type issues. Never heard of them before, has anyone else?

Their main website appears to be http://www.familyaction.ca.

They also have some sort of connection to a website specific to "outing" convicted pedophile individuals and, although I only took a quick look, I did notice that they were all male. http://www.stoppedophiles.ca
These sites may be of interest to others, some of whom have been following current events in the local area of two fellows facing charges of child pornography, but also to anyone interested in these types of groups in a more general context.

What I find lacking, given the Christian base of the org, is there is absolutely no mention of forgiveness. Also having open public lists of persons, no matter what the crime, is not sitting well in my mind. I firmly believe that if you do the crime you do the time, but also once your time is served, and hopefully your lesson learned, you should be able to try to get on with the rest of your life by reverting to the status quo NORMAL..... however, if people continually follow and publicly out an individual this will never be effected.

I totally understand that the records are available should someone wish to look for them, but bundling them up and offering them out on the Internet seems rather harsh, besides how would anyone know if it includes a few, many, or just the ones that the site owners dislike?

Have we as a society totally given up on forgiveness? Are we teaching our children about forgiveness? Or are we just becoming a cold hearted society?

A definition for forgiveness could be -- giving up my right to hurt you whenever you hurt me. It is impossible to live on this fallen planet without getting hurt, offended, misunderstood, lied to, and rejected. Learning how to respond properly is one of the basics of Christian life.

The word “forgive” means to wipe the slate clean, to pardon, to cancel a debt. When we wrong someone, we seek his or her forgiveness in order for the relationship to be restored. It is important to remember that forgiveness is not granted because a person deserves to be forgiven. Instead, it is an act of love, mercy, and grace.

How we act toward that person may change. It doesn't mean we will put ourselves back into a harmful situation, or that we suddenly accept or approve of the person's continued wrong behaviour. It simply means we release them from the wrong they committed against us. - See more at: http://www.allaboutgod.com/definition-f

Interested in what others think and have to say on the subject. This thread is not meant as a whipping board. Everyone is entitled to an opinion of the actual subject... just not looking for a whole bunch of personal jabs and attacks, thanks!

[Liquidnails]

I've met very few Christians who actually practiced what they preached. I personally believe that suspects names should not be made public until/unless a guilty verdict has been arrived at.

Facing charges is not the same as "found guilty of" I'm sure a great many lives have been destroyed by the public shame of having been accused of crimes that they did not commit.

[steven lloyd]

I personally believe that suspects names should not be made public until/unless a guilty verdict has been arrived at.

Persons charged with sex offences are almost always released by the police or the Court on undertakings with strict conditions. Conditions usually include reside as directed and not change your address without written permission (monitoring of these conditions includes home visits and residence checks), no contact with the victim, and in cases where a minor was involved might also include no contact with children under sixteen, no go public parks, swimming pools or playgrounds, and/or not to be found within 50 meters of a school or playground (that list of examples is no where near exhaustive). There might also be a curfew condition. These conditions might seem onerous for a person presumed to be innocent until proven guilty, but if there was enough evidence to approve charges then there is enough reason to be concerned for the safety of others.

Court proceedings and outcomes are public knowledge, and reporters sometimes sit in Court. It can be unfortunate that some people are sometimes incorrectly identified as suspects in a sex offense, but imagine the outrage if there was a re-offence while waiting for the lead matter to get to Court. Sometimes too the Court allows someone to live at a specific address that we determine is unsuitable due to risk factors that might be present (for example a school right across the street, or living in apartment with children present in neighboring units). Even if we were not provided the authority to compel them to move we could still be obligated to what is called a consistent notification where we would show everyone inn the unit a picture of the alleged offender and list of relevant protective conditions. That task is always so much fun.

[Boda]

It's a public court of justice.
if you are charged with a crime to be tried in a public court of justice all members of the society have a right to know and all members of society have the right to publically state that fact.
When you are exonerated of that crime all members of society have the right to know and all members of society have the right to publically state that fact.
Obviously, vice-versa when convicted.

This has nothing to do with forgiveness.

Edited 6:35am 6/11/2014

[Merry]

I think part of the concern is that even when someone is found not guilty of a crime, there are many who take the view that the person "must be guilty or they wouldn't have been charged in the first place". And some of the folks who feel that way, take it even further by making the person's life very difficult before, during and after the judicial process.

And the other part of the concern is that even after someone is found guilty and does their "time", there are many who, once the person is released from jail, will harass them and try to make their lives as difficult as possible. The problem of course being that if the person is not allowed to resume a "normal" life, sooner or later they may wind up reoffending in some way. And then the cycle begins all over again.

[mexi cali]

Discussion about crimes related to Child Pornography can be a very hot, emotionally charged topic. However the law is pretty clear, and when someone is charged with a crime of this nature they are entitled to both respect and the presumption of innocence, That though is not how we are wired. We judge far to often based on what we have read usually without the whole story. until such time as they are convicted by the courts.

These laws on the surface read almost as seriously as if it were a charge of murder; however the sentences and releases are all over the map. Trying to get a better understanding, I sought to read up on current day sentencing in Canada of persons convicted of varying child pornography crimes. The first thing I came across was an organization of stated Christian activists who seem very interested in the subject, as well as other child/sex/bullying type issues. Never heard of them before, has anyone else? They may be the worst examples of how to withhold judgement. Activist Christian organizations are far more interested in forwarding their agenda than they are in uncovering the truth.

Their main website appears to be http://www.familyaction.ca.

They also have some sort of connection to a website specific to "outing" convicted pedophile individuals That would be their solution to the problem. See if they can rile up the villagers who might want to exact some sort of old west justice on the convicted. Not that I am totally against old west justice but that attitude hardly fits the Christina doctrine. and, although I only took a quick look, I did notice that they were all male. http://www.stoppedophiles.ca
These sites may be of interest to others, some of whom have been following current events in the local area of two fellows facing charges of child pornography, but also to anyone interested in these types of groups in a more general context.

What I find lacking, given the Christian base of the org, is there is absolutely no mention of forgiveness. Nope. That is not their mission Also having open public lists of persons, no matter what the crime, is not sitting well in my mind. I firmly believe that if you do the crime you do the time, but also once your time is served, and hopefully your lesson learned, you should be able to try to get on with the rest of your life by reverting to the status quo NORMAL..... however, if people continually follow and publicly out an individual this will never be effected. Tough one though. If you had young children, would you want to know if the new guy on the block was a convicted pedophile? I hear what you're saying but it is idealistic to think that "we" have the capacity to be forgiving and accepting of the "done the crime, done the time so he deserves a second (third, fourth?) chance. We (most of us I would think) don't think that way. We think that pedophiles will always be pedophiles. Cheaters will always be cheaters and so on. It's the "the leopard can't change it's spots" mentality.

I totally understand that the records are available should someone wish to look for them, but bundling them up and offering them out on the Internet seems rather harsh, besides how would anyone know if it includes a few, many, or just the ones that the site owners dislike?

Have we as a society totally given up on forgiveness? I am not sure that we were ever fans of forgiveness. Are we teaching our children about forgiveness? Or are we just becoming a cold hearted society? Not becoming, but becoming more.

A definition for forgiveness could be -- giving up my right to hurt you whenever you hurt me. It is impossible to live on this fallen planet without getting hurt, offended, misunderstood, lied to, and rejected. Learning how to respond properly is one of the basics of Christian life. Yes it is but that is not what our record would show. There are very few true Christians among us. Those who pattern their lives after Jesus Christ. Most of those who call themselves Christians are hiding who they truly are behind the visage of goodness. Some of the most deviant and twisted among us will label themselves as Christians. I think that it is there way of getting those around them to drop their guard and allow them into their lives so they can act out who they really are. Now that's harsh.

[color=#000000][color=#000000]The word “forgive” means to wipe the slate clean[/color], [/color]to pardon, to cancel a debt. When we wrong someone, we seek his or her forgiveness in order for the relationship to be restored. It is important to remember that forgiveness is not granted because a person deserves to be forgiven. Instead, it is an act of love, mercy, and grace. Attributes which most of us do not possess.

How we act toward that person may change. It doesn't mean we will put ourselves back into a harmful situation, or that we suddenly accept or approve of the person's continued wrong behaviour. It simply means we release them from the wrong they committed against us. - See more at: http://www.allaboutgod.com/definition-f

Interested in what others think and have to say on the subject. This thread is not meant as a whipping board. Everyone is entitled to an opinion of the actual subject... just not looking for a whole bunch of personal jabs and attacks, thanks!

[LANDM]

Or maybe the concern by many is that there is a difference between legal guilt or innocence, civil guilt or innocence, and societal guilt or innocence.

Paying ones debt to society is fine in a legal way. However, it does not mean that one has been rehabilitated magically and is unlikely to reoffend.

In the case of crimes which are particularly heinous to current societal norms, such as those involving children, the standard is such that there is no reason to think that we, as other members of society, have to only adhere to the most stringent (legal) level of guilt, innocence, or in the case of someone charged, the possibility of guilt.

[Bsuds]

What I find lacking, given the Christian base of the org, is there is absolutely no mention of forgiveness. Also having open public lists of persons, no matter what the crime, is not sitting well in my mind. I firmly believe that if you do the crime you do the time, but also once your time is served, and hopefully your lesson learned, you should be able to try to get on with the rest of your life by reverting to the status quo NORMAL..... however, if people continually follow and publicly out an individual this will never be effected.

I really don't think that someone who spends some time incarcerated that has a sexual deviation such as an interest in children is going to be "cured" by spending time in jail. He/she may have paid their debt to society but by no means can they be trusted not to re offend which is why the public needs to know who they are.

What someone does behind closed doors with a consenting adult is no ones business but if it involves children it's everyones business and they need to be stopped!