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The feminist movement is getting out of control.

Social, economic and environmental issues in our ever-changing world.

Re: The feminist movement is getting out of control.

Postby sobrohusfat » Apr 30th, 2017, 7:02 pm



Full vid - pure Jordan Peterson awsomeness on freedom of speech, ideological possession, unconscious bias and the Implicit Association test, and other issues germane to psychology and the modern world:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ABa4RdNPxU

brilliant
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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Re: The feminist movement is getting out of control.

Postby Silverstarqueen » May 1st, 2017, 5:32 am

Thirteen and a half minutes talking mostly about female lawyer or execs, which are a tiny minority of women.
The only useful comment: Both genders have their injustices to live with.and. The birth rate has dropped, society has prospered.

So, back to reality. Women, most women, need gainful employment (probably some kind of education) to ensure neither they nor their children will live in poverty. So they work to support their families. Very few are rich enough not to be concerned with the reality of balancing the huge liability of having children (if they have any) and how to pay the bills. The reality is, some men step up and do their bit to support the family, some don't. Women can't necessarily rely on that to feed their kids and put a roof over their heads.Life is expensive.

"For children living in lone-parent families in BC in 2013, a shocking 50% were
poor. This year we’ve included a new fact sheet on food insecurity and core
housing need in BC which shows that children in lone-parent families were
much more likely to experience food insecurity and live in inadequate housing
than children in couple families. Clearly we must do more to reduce this terrible
inequality for children in lone-parent families..... child poverty touches every part
of the province. In some regional districts one third or even one half of the
children were living in poverty. In some urban and suburban neighbourhoods,
more than half of the children were living in poverty with rates reaching 50%,
60% and even 70%."(2015 BC Child Poverty Report Card)"

His big speech did not seem to address this.
I often wonder what qualifies guys (who have themselves never had to birth the babies, or figure out how to balance daycare and single parenthood) , to comment on how women should be somehow managing all this better because "they aren't that poor".
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Re: The feminist movement is getting out of control.

Postby 36Drew » May 1st, 2017, 5:42 pm

Silverstarqueen wrote:I often wonder what qualifies guys (who have themselves never had to birth the babies, or figure out how to balance daycare and single parenthood) , to comment on how women should be somehow managing all this better because "they aren't that poor".


"Birthing babies" and "single parenthood" are not the same thing. There are many single custodial fathers out there who have exactly the same concerns - balancing daycare, jobs, school, etc - as single custodial mothers. If the same problems effect both genders, this isn't a gendered issue.
I'd like to change your mind, but I don't have a fresh diaper.

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Re: The feminist movement is getting out of control.

Postby Silverstarqueen » May 1st, 2017, 6:31 pm

Silverstarqueen wrote:I often wonder what qualifies guys (who have themselves never had to birth the babies, or figure out how to balance daycare and single parenthood) , to comment on how women should be somehow managing all this better because "they aren't that poor".

36Drew wrote:"Birthing babies" and "single parenthood" are not the same thing. There are many single custodial fathers out there who have exactly the same concerns - balancing daycare, jobs, school, etc - as single custodial mothers. If the same problems effect both genders, this isn't a gendered issue.


My comment was in reference to guys "who have themselves never had to birth babies, OR figure out how to balance daycare and single parenthood". Clearly if you understand English that doesn't apply to single custodial fathers out there.

And you are explaining to me, that birthing babies and single parenthood are not the same thing? Since i have done both, I think I can tell the difference.

In the case that I outlined, (guys who don't birth babies OR balance daycare and single parenthood) it certainly is a different problem. As has been pointed out many times on this thread, more than 80 percent of single custodial parents are women, so it is a scenario that falls far more often to women. That makes it a female/feminist concern.
Yes, we can figure out it doesn't apply to women who don't have children, or women who have high enough paying jobs they can just get a nanny (very few), women who have their parents hanging in the wings to help raise the kids,women who are not single or have a supportive partner. But I wasn't talking about them either.

When most of the suicide victims are males, it's a men's rights issue.
Yet when most of the custodial single parents are female, suddenly it's not a women's Issue?
Last edited by Silverstarqueen on May 1st, 2017, 6:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The feminist movement is getting out of control.

Postby liisgo » May 1st, 2017, 6:37 pm

If there is to be such a concern for single parents and the struggles of raising our children alone then there should not be one single court dispute with a parent fighting for sole custody.
1000's of court battles entry our court systems every year. That usually means one parent is demanding sole custody and the other is begging for shared and equal parenting.
So again, if we are concerned about issue's we should start by automatic shared parenting for each and every parent that wants it. Not mothers fighting for sole custody as the only option.
That would allow 1000's of mothers every year to get out there and seek rewarding, challenging careers and be financially independent.
Lets start there.
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Re: The feminist movement is getting out of control.

Postby Silverstarqueen » May 1st, 2017, 6:44 pm

Both parents have equal rights to share custody. It is not just mothers seeking sole custody and fathers seeking shared.
The majority of cases are settled before they ever are decided on by the courts, between the parents.
Of those that go to court I am sure some are mother seeking sole custody, and some father seeks sole custody.
Judge decides what is in the best interests of the child, according to their rights, and will often send it back to the parents to work it out (again). failing that, the judge has to decide on what degree of sharing or not there is, since the parents are insisting on not agreeing to some kind of arrangement. As much as possible, contact with non custodial parent is maintained unless there is some reason why it should not be. It's a court proceeding so sometimes one parent or the other is not going to be thrilled with someone else's decision.
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Re: The feminist movement is getting out of control.

Postby 36Drew » May 1st, 2017, 8:21 pm

Silverstarqueen wrote:And you are explaining to me, that birthing babies and single parenthood are not the same thing? Since i have done both, I think I can tell the difference.


Yes, I'm telling you that giving birth to a baby and raising a child by yourself for 20 years are two different things. It's pretty bloody obvious that they're two different things. You may have done both, but obviously you cannot tell the difference. Just because one happens does not mean the other is automatic. The only way you could lump the two of them together and call them the same thing is if you had an axe to grind and needed to enforce a narrow narrative. There's 100+ pages in this thread that strongly suggest that you do.

Silverstarqueen wrote:My comment was in reference to guys "who have themselves never had to birth babies, OR figure out how to balance daycare and single parenthood". Clearly if you understand English that doesn't apply to single custodial fathers out there.


Your comment was intended to blend birth with single parenthood - otherwise you wouldn't have felt the need to call out both.



Silverstarqueen wrote:That makes it a female/feminist concern.


Only in your narrow-minded and divisive world-view.

Silverstarqueen wrote:When most of the suicide victims are males, it's a men's rights issue.


Suicide hasn't been poised as a "Male Right's" issue as in it's exclusive to men. It's been pointed to as something that's oft-ignored when men are involved. Literature, prevention programs, and assistance for suicide prevention are heavily slanted to helping women.

You don't like this thread? You don't like the title? Try leading a little by example.
I'd like to change your mind, but I don't have a fresh diaper.
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Re: The feminist movement is getting out of control.

Postby Silverstarqueen » May 1st, 2017, 9:19 pm

I did not call "birthing babies" and " raising children as a single parent" to be the same thing (even if you say I did). The connection they have, if you think very carefully and hard about it, is that women often do both, guys often do not. And yet, the same guys who usually do not do either, seem to be an expert (as the guy I noticed in the video linked to) about how women should be managing this juggling act somehow better.

I see nothing particularly wrong with this thread, or its title.
I do see something wrong when someone mis-states completely what they claim I said, when I didn't say it.
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Re: The feminist movement is getting out of control.

Postby liisgo » May 2nd, 2017, 7:03 am

You live in a fantasy world that has no insight in the realities of what is actually happening to most custody battles.
There are hundreds of these battles every year just in this city. They are usually about a mother demanding sole custody and a father asking for the opportunity to just remain in the family.
Go sit for a day in our family court system and get ready to be disgusted.
You think a father just asks for shared parenting/custody and gets it? its a battle that last for years, and you will find fathers every where that will tell you these stories.
I have no problem with issues that single parents have, I had them, but until we actually fix the stereo typing, gender reasoning and demand for sheer control, not to mention the fight for money, we can not truthfully deal with the issue's.
Those court battles are not what you make them. They are vindictive, control and money fights, and this system still horribly discriminates against the same parent.
Perfect example of the feminist movement not acknowledging something because it is in their benefit and they only want to keep it that way.

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Re: The feminist movement is getting out of control.

Postby JustMyTwoCents » May 3rd, 2017, 1:45 pm

There are hundreds of these battles every year just in this city. They are usually about a mother demanding sole custody and a father asking for the opportunity to just remain in the family.

I actually work in Family Law and while, yes, a lot of the cases that get to court are as you describe, there are many many many more situations where the parents work it without going to court. Also, majority of the time (but I will admit not all of it) there is a valid reason why one parent is requesting sole custody (which is now parenting time, not custody). It could be anything from physical locations (parents live in different cities) to abuse and a million other things between. And as for the stigma that the mom always gets custody, that tide is turning. Under the new Family Law Act it is all about the best interests of the child, not the gender of the parent. Yes the mother still gets the bulk of the parenting time (and parenting responsibilities) more often than the father but it's not solely because she's the mom. There are many aspects to the Judges reasons for that, and can include things like her job is better suited to daycare/school schedules, she was the primary caregiver for that child, the child wants to stay with the mom, the list goes on. Now all of these reason can apply to either parent.

In the case of my separation, my ex and I sat down like mature adults and looked at what was best for our kid. Everything from work schedules, finances, support systems, everything, and at the time of our separation we decided together that it was best for our child to live with him. We have shared parenting time so yes a dad can just ask for shared and get it, just because you don't see doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Perfect example of the feminist movement not acknowledging something because it is in their benefit and they only want to keep it that way.

Except it's not, because there has been legislation introduced to take the focus away from the mom (or dad) and put it on the best interest of the child. Enacting a new law is not an easy thing so I would say a lot of effort went into acknowledging, and starting to fix, the gender bias in this issue.
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Re: The feminist movement is getting out of control.

Postby liisgo » May 3rd, 2017, 4:01 pm

For "the sake of the children" the report written by senator Ann cools and others, is now over 20 years old. It illustrated many, many issue's of the defective system. Recommendations were made at the federal level and none of those were acknowledge or put into place. 20 years later we are starting to see that, Yes, movement in the right direction is taking place.
There are still many reports, complaints about gender bias in our system, and hopefully we can one day get by it.
In my cause and many others I know, it was never about both parents requesting joint parenting time, it was about one parenting demanding only sole custody and one requesting shared. Then comes the court battle. I know 2 wonderful fathers going through this right now.
Most good parents want a good working situation for themselves and their children. To stay actively involved. And to do that with out, the others control and involvement. The court battles happen when one doesn't want that.
Is there still gender bias in the system. Of course there is.
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Re: The feminist movement is getting out of control.

Postby Silverstarqueen » May 4th, 2017, 12:06 am

I have known mostly people who like JustMyTwoCents manage to work out most of the child arrangements in a civilized manner.
It is not just mothers "demanding" this, and fathers politely "asking" that, and a judge would not put up with "demands' in their court anyway.
IF you read actual court decisions (publicly available) there are many many things to consider in every separation agreement as to who is responsible for what, and all these things are considered "in the best interests of the child", not because one parent is demanding some outrageous arrangement. So no judge is going to shut out a particular parent based on gender alone.
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Re: The feminist movement is getting out of control.

Postby StraitTalk » May 5th, 2017, 12:31 am

I would like to remind everyone what this thread is about. This thread isn't about generalising all women or men, feminist or not. This thread is about talking about how many men increasingly demonised by feminism and how illogical and counter-productive the cause has become for some people. Very prominent feminists of the past and of current times have commented on this poisonous corner of the cause and in an age where inaccurate or downright false media is taken as fact, this poison is increasingly effective.

I know not all people are like this, I'm pretty sure that's explicitly suggested in the original post. If we can stop falling back on the "not everyone is like this" argument every few pages that would be terrific, and maybe we can continue to focus on the ones that are.

To those of you who seem more interested in arguing with others over things as trivial as spelling please move on.
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Re: The feminist movement is getting out of control.

Postby Silverstarqueen » May 8th, 2017, 5:15 am

In a world where women's rights, including reproductive rights, are being threatened daily, The Handmaid's Tale seems to make a lot more sense. Is it any wonder that women are protesting in the face of continual threat to their human rights?
http://io9.gizmodo.com/10-real-laws-str ... 1794887451

http://www.premiumtimesng.com/news/top- ... girls.html
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Re: The feminist movement is getting out of control.

Postby Gixxer » May 9th, 2017, 7:01 pm

Jordan Peterson on Joe Rogan Podcast today


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