No one changes: what you are now you'll always be

[Oxl3y]

For those who like the idea of being in control and changing at will:

What do you tell someone afflicted with schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, anorexia nervosa, addictive disorders? There are even proven genetic links to alcoholism. It is not a choice to have those genetic problems, the choice happens when a person fights hard and struggles to cope with them so that they are not overcome, yet they are always there.

You are diminishing the struggles some people face through no action of their own and no power to change it. You may as well blame the person for having been born into a family bearing the genetic markers for such disorders.

It is sad when people with a measure of quality in their lives have the short-sightedness to trivialize major disorders instead of being damn thankful that they are blessed. You don't choose to be born into an affluent family with high intelligence any more than you choose to be born into a family with a history of addiction and/or depression.

Obsessed much? No one was talking about the struggles people with mental disabilities face. Stop grasping at straws for an opportunity to soap box it up.

[kgcayenne]

Obsessed much? No one was talking about the struggles people with mental disabilities face. Stop grasping at straws for an opportunity to soap box it up.

Obsessed? No, my thoughts are not dominated by the plights of others, it is just a common link in my recent posting preferences. I haven't always felt this way, as those of you who've been familiar with my posting style will remember it back in 2005.

Does that mean I've changed as a person? No, I'm still an introverted, socially awkward, opinionated, sensitive, woman whose life experiences in the past nine years have prompted re-evaluation of my driving principles and certain values.

Certain actions and events will still trigger my foundation traits.

A couple things that have also influenced my opinion on this matter:
I was separated from my half sister for more than a decade, and even after we met, our time spent together was minimal.
After the age of 18 months, I never saw my biological father again and was raised by great step-dad.

So what, right?

My half-sister and I, although not being raised together, speak and gesture like one another, and react exactly the same way to certain things.
The first time I visited my widowed step-mother at the house she shared with my biological father, I removed my shoes, put down my bags, made a beeline for his chair (not knowing it was his), popped up the foot rest, and had the dog I’d never met jump up and curled up in my lap. That whole segment of actions was exactly as my deceased biological father, whom I’d never met, had returned home from work every day for the previous fifteen years.

Those are only two of the experiences I’ve had that allow me to be so opinionated on how there are things genetically ingrained in each and every one of us.

[OREZ]

I have no idea why it's so hard for some people to distinguish between a change in behaviour or habits (as a result of experience or maturity, or strengthening of self discipline) and an actual change in personality and tendencies. A few of us have merely tried to point out that there is a difference (in our view) and yet others seem bent on trying to put words in our mouths and insist that we are saying that no change in anything is possible... Period. I guess that it's going to be difficult for the discussion to move forward if we can't get past that.

Actors can change their behaviour at will and even appear to change their personalities and would be able to fool most people in doing so. They're still the same person. Kind of like way some people are real phonies when they're teenagers and young adults but at some point they get tired of playing a role to impress people and they become more comfortable with who they really are and were all along beneath surface. (Very common behaviour)

(Edited for typo)

[Glacier]

I'm confused. Admittedly, this thread was 4 pages long before I stumbled across it, but I thought that it was about how changing behavior was impossible. I think most people are in agreement that inherited traits are there for life. My dad and his much younger brother have the same traits and mannerisms even though they didn't grow up together. It's even hard to tell them apart on the phone. This is clearly hereditary.

As far as I can tell the OP was not talking about about illnesses and personality traits that could be inherited. This is what he had to say:

So the lesson is this - if you're a good honest person when you're young - you've got it made. If you're not honest when you're young - you'll never ever change. That's the way things are.

I disagree with the OP, though I will say that people do inherit the propensity to lie and cheat. ie. some people have to work harder at being honest than others. A crook is not a lost cause, but it definitely helps to be honest when you're young. They have done studies on these types of things, and find that younger people are less honest because they don't view lying as wrong. This doesn't bode well for society when these same young people become old, but that's another topic perhaps.

[Fancy]

I have no idea why it's so hard for some pepole to distinguish between a change in behaviour or habits (as a result of experience or maturity, or strengthening of self discipline) and an actual change in personality and tendencies.

I don't care about the distinction - my point is an alcoholic at a young age can be a teetotaler as a senior which is contrary to the OP's statement that someone has to keep drinking.

[OREZ]

removed.

[Fancy]

Here's the rest of my post:

my point is an alcoholic at a young age can be a teetotaler as a senior which is contrary to the OP's statement that someone has to keep drinking.

[OREZ]

So the lesson is this - if you're a good honest person when you're young - you've got it made. If you're not honest when you're young - you'll never ever change. That's the way things are.

I disagree with the OP, though I will say that people do inherit the propensity to lie and cheat. ie. some people have to work harder at being honest than others. A crook is not a lost cause, but it definitely helps to be honest when you're young. They have done studies on these types of things, and find that younger people are less honest because they don't view lying as wrong. This doesn't bode well for society when these same young people become old, but that's another topic perhaps.

I disagree with the OP as well and I think I said that earlier.

I'm in agreement with the example you used here.

Here's another example:

I had a friend in school who was an upbeat, popular guy and star drama student. We were friends but not really close. I lost track of him for years and then, after he had had some serious health issues we reconnected. We became very good friends again and talked about stuff we never did in school. I thought it was his major illness that had "changed him" when he told me he was prone to depression and other issues. He said, "I've been like this my whole life... you remember what a good actor I was right?"

[kgcayenne]

I had to edit this post, because I had singled one person out, but have actually found posts in other threads from a total of three participants who are of the mind that people can change their core traits and tendencies. Each of them has said” You can't fix stupid “

So, if you can't fix stupid, doesn't that mean a person can't change?

Let’s expand on this, and why we say such things without fully grasping their scope.

[Oxl3y]

So, if you can't fix stupid, doesn't that mean a person can't change?

Can you expand on this?

People can change. Stupid people cannot. Seems like a pretty simple concept to me. Why does it have to be 100% of people can change? Dealing in absolutes is what made the OP look ridiculous.

[kgcayenne]

I edited in the meantime, second thoughts & all.

[Oxl3y]

I edited in the meantime, second thoughts & all.

Fine fine I edited to suit your edit

[Fancy]

People can learn and change their behavior. And yes, I saw the edited post. I don't often use the word "stupid" and usually in people making stupid (including me) mistakes.

[kgcayenne]

The OP posts as though these people’s behaviours are impossible to change. I don’t share that viewpoint. However, such people are likely hardwired, and behavioural changes can be difficult, and close to impossible for some.

I can't imagine what it would be like to be unable to break free of such people.

To think that we are in absolute control at all times is mistaken. There are parts of us that are unchangeable, and it’s a mistake to trivialize it, yet it is trivialized every single day. Open up any social media, and you’ll see all these catchy little motivational sayings that make it all sound so damn easy to just “change what you are thinking about that subject” “taaadaaa” it’s all better now.

I can’t even begin to understand the circumstances the OP has endured to lead him to feel the way he does. It’s a very hopeless outlook.

People are fascinating and wondrous, the mind is an incredible place with dark ominous places that are uncomfortable to talk about.

[Hassel99]

Let's look at three people all over 76 years old who were each negative in their own way.
When they got old, they stayed exactly the same as they were when they were younger.
None of them said "Hey, I don't have much time left - I better be nice."

Elmer (not his real name) was a moocher. His whole life he would try 'take' from people he knew.
He'd show up for free meals. He's take fruit for free from his friend's orchards. He would always
try to save his own money, and use other people to spend their money on him. And to be able
to be as good a moocher as he was, he was a good talker. People liked to hang around him.
Right until the day he got alzheimers and had to be put into a home, he kept on mooching from people.
No human can ever change. What you are now, you'll always be.

John was an alcoholic. The poor old bugger never ate nutritious meals. Do you think he would 'change'
when he finally had more money and eat better food? Nope. No human can ever change. John just kept drinking
alcohol until the day he finally croaked. John was a good talker and people liked him though.
No human can ever change. What you are now, you'll always be.

Wolfy( not his real name) was a salesman. somehow he learned to be dishonest when he was younger.
He learned to trick people into buying things. Do you think when Wolfy got older he would change and try
to make up for all the dishonest things he did when he was younger, so God would forgive him for those things?
Nope. Wolfy kept on lying even when he was old. He kept on making that money money money.
No human can ever change. What you are now, you'll always be.

So the lesson is this - if you're a good honest person when you're young - you've got it made. If you're not honest
when you're young - you'll never ever change. That's the way things are.

Your anecdotal evidence proves nothing, which may in a round about way prove your point !