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Teaching Toddlers About Gay Pride

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Re: Teaching Toddlers About Gay Pride

Postby zzontar » Aug 22nd, 2017, 11:15 am

Queen K wrote:
Ha, you bumped a thread from 2015 to ask about fairness to heterosexuals? :135:

Well, the last man to be thrown in jail in Canada in 1966 I believe, was likely asking about fairness too. They can be who they are and me? Where am I at?

I don't believe this even encompasses the word "fairness." Some how that is weak.


My point was that if you had to explain to a kid that because heteros got special treatment and the gays didn't like that, they wanted special treatment, which is what they were against to begin with and is why heteros can't have parades. It's 2 wrongs that make a right, little Billy.
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Re: Teaching Toddlers About Gay Pride

Postby just popping in » Aug 22nd, 2017, 11:23 am

Strange question. Do you teach your toddler racism?
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Re: Teaching Toddlers About Gay Pride

Postby zzontar » Aug 22nd, 2017, 11:31 am

just popping in wrote:Strange question. Do you teach your toddler racism?


I don't have one but if I did, I would teach that no group should get special privileges and equality would be better which would make me a racist nowadays, so I guess the answer is yes.
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Re: Teaching Toddlers About Gay Pride

Postby youjustcomplain » Aug 22nd, 2017, 11:49 am

spooker wrote:The reason that a "Hetero Pride" parade would be offensive is the same reason that "White Lives Matter" is idiotic ...

No one disputes the fact that "lives matter" and should be inclusive ... but by making the other claim is to diminish the real fact that "black lives" are being affected at a much greater rate than equality should allow ...

Just as the LGBTQ community was persecuted for years there is still an attitude they get from many (not all) CIS that if allowed to would just put people's efforts back to the stone age if that recognition was allowed to fade away ...

Society as a whole has not made equality the "default" ... until then the marginalized will need to push to keep the recognition they've been able to gain ...


Hetero Pride could be the exact same thing is gay pride. People just having fun, surrounded by people who are in support of, or share their sexuality. It need not be about anything more than that. I think many of us know that a Hetero pride event would actually be more than that though. I think it would be hyjacked by the religious and the bigoted, (not necessarily different groups). I suspect that would turn into a hate rally against LGBQT community. For that reason, there is no good reason to have this event, but in theory, it should have the same social licence to operate as a gay pride event would. Reason: equality.

White Lives Matter. I think it's a fine statement. We know white lives matter. We know black lives matter. What I never understood was people getting all upset that others were making signs to say "all lives matter". It's a fact, not a bias. All lives do matter. The only difference is that the original "black lives matter" slogan was exclusive, rather than inclusive.

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Re: Teaching Toddlers About Gay Pride

Postby spooker » Aug 22nd, 2017, 2:00 pm

youjustcomplain wrote:Hetero Pride could be the exact same thing is gay pride. People just having fun, surrounded by people who are in support of, or share their sexuality. It need not be about anything more than that. I think many of us know that a Hetero pride event would actually be more than that though. I think it would be hyjacked by the religious and the bigoted, (not necessarily different groups). I suspect that would turn into a hate rally against LGBQT community. For that reason, there is no good reason to have this event, but in theory, it should have the same social licence to operate as a gay pride event would. Reason: equality.


Have you stepped out of your comfort zone to be hetero? Following expectations doesn't get you any points that can be redeemed for a parade ... just like parents don't continue cheering every time their adult child uses the toilet instead of wetting their pants ... it's just the expectations being met ... I do agree with your assessment that a hetero-pride parade would be hijacked for the wrong reasons ... similar to the way that celebrating confederate generals was a subtle dig at black community as we're now recognizing ...

youjustcomplain wrote:White Lives Matter. I think it's a fine statement. We know white lives matter. We know black lives matter. What I never understood was people getting all upset that others were making signs to say "all lives matter". It's a fact, not a bias. All lives do matter. The only difference is that the original "black lives matter" slogan was exclusive, rather than inclusive.


As I tried to explain when I was using it as a comparison, people get upset because when someone says "all lives matter" they are dismissing the fact that there is a problem with blacks being targeted ... the slogan is exclusive because it's not affecting non-blacks ...
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Re: Teaching Toddlers About Gay Pride

Postby Ka-El » Aug 22nd, 2017, 2:26 pm

spooker wrote: As I tried to explain when I was using it as a comparison, people get upset because when someone says "all lives matter" they are dismissing the fact that there is a problem with blacks being targeted ... the slogan is exclusive because it's not affecting non-blacks ...

Some people are under the assumption that everything should just be equal
because they erroneously believe everything is already equal.
Just goes to show just how much further we still have to go.
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Re: Teaching Toddlers About Gay Pride

Postby foodsmith » Aug 23rd, 2017, 12:55 am

I think, Zzontar, you may have missed the meaning of Pride Parade in the first place.

My pre-teen son handled it best when explaining to his toddler sister about this very thing:

He picked her up out of her stroller, held her waaaaaaaay up high, and simply said, "See that? Everyone loves everyone!".

Then he told her how there was a time when not everyone would walk together because some people said it wasn't okay to love who you wanted to love. He pointed out happy couples; young couples; older couples; funky-looking couples; heterosexual couples; transgender couples... Just people in love.

He simply said again, "We're celebrating that everyone's allowed to be happy together".

For a Toddler, why go any further? I mean, seriously?

My partner, my other daughter, and myself were all pretty satisfied with that -- and our youngest clapped and cheered until her palms were puffy. My boy couldn't have been prouder to have been a part of that, either.

Honestly, sometimes love is just love.

It's not about "special treatment"; I will straight-up challenge anyone who can say that celebrating the right to love and be with the one you love is "special treatment".

You want to declare to the world how much you appreciate that you can openly love the partner you've chosen to experience all things "life" with? DO IT!

The world needs waaaaaaaay more of it -- and no 2 year old will ever be confused by it. :130:

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Re: Teaching Toddlers About Gay Pride

Postby youjustcomplain » Aug 23rd, 2017, 6:24 am

spooker wrote:Have you stepped out of your comfort zone to be hetero? Following expectations doesn't get you any points that can be redeemed for a parade ... just like parents don't continue cheering every time their adult child uses the toilet instead of wetting their pants ... it's just the expectations being met ... I do agree with your assessment that a hetero-pride parade would be hijacked for the wrong reasons ... similar to the way that celebrating confederate generals was a subtle dig at black community as we're now recognizing ...

Being straight is not an expectation. I'm not meeting expectations as you put it.
In your example, being straight is successfully not wetting the bed, and that the child should not be recognized for it. However, being a part of the LGBQT community is like being that kid who continues to fail. I don't accept this, even as a metaphor. People are people and their sexuality is not a matter of failure.


spooker wrote:As I tried to explain when I was using it as a comparison, people get upset because when someone says "all lives matter" they are dismissing the fact that there is a problem with blacks being targeted ... the slogan is exclusive because it's not affecting non-blacks ...

Whoa, I don't think we could disagree more. Though I'm happy to try.
If I say "all lives matter", I do NOT dismiss anything. I recognize many of the issues black people have had to deal with in the past and that some of these issues continue into current time. Racism is totally not acceptable.
In what world are only black people affected by this? Not only is it a societal problem that involves "white" people, but cops kill "white" people too.
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Re: Teaching Toddlers About Gay Pride

Postby zzontar » Aug 23rd, 2017, 6:55 am

foodsmith wrote:I think, Zzontar, you may have missed the meaning of Pride Parade in the first place.

My pre-teen son handled it best when explaining to his toddler sister about this very thing:

He picked her up out of her stroller, held her waaaaaaaay up high, and simply said, "See that? Everyone loves everyone!".

Then he told her how there was a time when not everyone would walk together because some people said it wasn't okay to love who you wanted to love. He pointed out happy couples; young couples; older couples; funky-looking couples; heterosexual couples; transgender couples... Just people in love.

He simply said again, "We're celebrating that everyone's allowed to be happy together".

For a Toddler, why go any further? I mean, seriously?

My partner, my other daughter, and myself were all pretty satisfied with that -- and our youngest clapped and cheered until her palms were puffy. My boy couldn't have been prouder to have been a part of that, either.

Honestly, sometimes love is just love.

It's not about "special treatment"; I will straight-up challenge anyone who can say that celebrating the right to love and be with the one you love is "special treatment".

You want to declare to the world how much you appreciate that you can openly love the partner you've chosen to experience all things "life" with? DO IT!

The world needs waaaaaaaay more of it -- and no 2 year old will ever be confused by it. :130:


That's a very good way to explain that to a toddler, but what do you tell them when they get older and realize there are gay pride parades but straight pride parades aren't allowed?
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Re: Teaching Toddlers About Gay Pride

Postby foodsmith » Aug 23rd, 2017, 7:25 am

Where are all these signs saying, "No Hetero Pride"?

Like I said -- shout your love from the rooftops! No balanced person will stop and tell you to pipe down with that crap and invite more hate.

As for older kids, I say we tell them the truth: It's not that it's not "allowed", it's that we diminish the message of universal love when we begin divisively categorizing again!

We've had our pride celebration every friggin' Valentine's day (growing up, how many dinners out did you take your sweetie to and get seated next to a same-sex couple? Really think about that...), every date night, every fearless sunset hand-in-hand walk, etc...

My point is that when they are older, they can begin to understand the roots of the Pride movement and its original purpose: To level the playing field on a topic as natural as the passing of time itself.

It's a great question you've asked here. My son asked the same thing. Most curious kids will; their insightful, amazing little brains will almost always seek balance in some way... So give them some truth -- which children always deserve...
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Re: Teaching Toddlers About Gay Pride

Postby Ka-El » Aug 23rd, 2017, 7:28 am

zzontar wrote: That's a very good way to explain that to a toddler, but what do you tell them when they get older and realize there are gay pride parades but straight pride parades aren't allowed?

The only way they'd realize that is if you lied to them. You want a straight pride parade? Go ahead and get the permits and have one. Might have a hard time finding people to participate or come watch, but fill your boots.
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Re: Teaching Toddlers About Gay Pride

Postby zzontar » Aug 23rd, 2017, 7:33 am

Ka-El wrote:The only way they'd realize that is if you lied to them. You want a straight pride parade? Go ahead and get the permits and have one. Might have a hard time finding people to participate or come watch, but fill your boots.


Believe it or not, there are actually straight people who have pride as well, they just don't have to parade around in g-strings to prove it.
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Re: Teaching Toddlers About Gay Pride

Postby Ka-El » Aug 23rd, 2017, 7:36 am

zzontar wrote: Believe it or not, there are actually straight people who have pride as well, ...

That's because they've never had to hide that fact.

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Re: Teaching Toddlers About Gay Pride

Postby Ka-El » Aug 23rd, 2017, 7:36 am

youjustcomplain wrote: Hetero Pride could be the exact same thing is gay pride. People just having fun, surrounded by people who are in support of, or share their sexuality. It need not be about anything more than that.

Very much like the Mardi Gras parades in New Orleans and Rio
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Re: Teaching Toddlers About Gay Pride

Postby spooker » Aug 23rd, 2017, 9:31 am

youjustcomplain wrote:Being straight is not an expectation. I'm not meeting expectations as you put it.
In your example, being straight is successfully not wetting the bed, and that the child should not be recognized for it. However, being a part of the LGBQT community is like being that kid who continues to fail. I don't accept this, even as a metaphor. People are people and their sexuality is not a matter of failure.


youjustcomplain wrote:Whoa, I don't think we could disagree more. Though I'm happy to try.
If I say "all lives matter", I do NOT dismiss anything. I recognize many of the issues black people have had to deal with in the past and that some of these issues continue into current time. Racism is totally not acceptable.
In what world are only black people affected by this? Not only is it a societal problem that involves "white" people, but cops kill "white" people too.


At this point I have exhausted myself trying to find new ways to explain it in ways that can be related to ... there are smarter people than I who've written more extensively on these subjects ...

Thankfully I know that toddlers will grow up in spite of what we think, say, or do ... my hope is that they keep an open mind longer than their forebears (us) ...
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