H&M Redefines What 'Ladylike' Is

[Atomoa]

Either way it sounds like a lot of work and If we had a choice I think most guys prefer a low maintenance woman.

If a man tries to tell me that the no-make-up/no-breast-implant look is what he's into, I'll ask if his porn folder/links are filled with the content they are describing.

[Poindexter]

If a man tries to tell me that the no-make-up/no-breast-implant look is what he's into, I'll ask if his porn folder/links are filled with the content they are describing.

You're talking to the wrong guy, learned early in life that images of pornography are insidious and a sex life killer. Maybe you young guys havent learned yet that the real thing is much better.

In you last post you said women are only healthy if they're thin. I beg to differ.

[Silverstarqueen]

I don't think you can narrow down men's preferences to one type. There are many who like the curvy Marily Monroe type (didn't help her delicate mental state however), and many who like the more generous "Ruebenesque" type. There may even be quite a few who like the skinny type. Anorexic, maybe not so much. But aside from ballerinas, and models, not too many women have to aspire to that. The entertainment industry is driving a lot of the "thinner is better" mentality, and they will claim they are just offering what a certain (large) segment of the public viewers want. Still there are singers and entertainers who, if they are good enough, can make it with a larger figure, so someone is more interested in their voice or talents than in their dress size. Our society is very visually oriented and there is a bombardment of images assaulting young people today. I really hope the adoration of the "Twiggy" era, continues to fade and never comes back, if it is just going to drive young people into starving themselves.

But that doesn't mean we all have to aspire to have a larger body size either. People can chose their own skin that they feel comfortable in, with some limitations. It would be difficult for a waitress, on her feet all day, and in tight confines to work if she were extremely large, but moderately curvy, should be no problem. Obviously she isn't expecting to make a living in most dance groups, ballet, or as a long distance runner. Claims that obese people are acing marathons, well, I just haven't seen that, or they must be a rarety. Long distance swimmers however, do have to carry some body fat to withstand the conditions and avoid hypothermia. So I think people should just design their bodies the way they like them, or to please their partners if they wish to do that. If they don't like being large, it's not a secret, diet and exercise does work. If they don't like being thin, (aside from those suffering from disease), eat more of the right foods, exercise less.

I should think a smart clothes marketer would want to produce clothes for all body types. There seems to be a back lash against those who seem to think only skinny people should wear their brand, and why not, something like 70% of the population is becoming larger than the "average" of days gone by. Probably due to the population ageing, and we all tend to gain a little more as we get older, for various reasons. Metabolism changes, we slow down, we exercise less, we eat more, care less what everyone else thinks. And it's not just the women, I see a lot more guys who are on the large side as well, probably because there are fewer physically demanding jobs out there, far fewer farmers, labourers, loggers, etc., more machinery to do everything. Clothing designers don't seem to have a problem coming up with clothes for the larger guy, so why not for the larger women?

[JayByrd]

Do we tell people it's ok to smoke? Look in the mirror and smile because your crack addiction is manageable and you're a beautiful person?


Now we're trying to make being overweight hip. It's wrong.

I'd say the same thing if someone was telling my Dad's that his beer gut was beautiful as long as he was cool with it.

Right. You'd remind him that he will never truly be acceptable unless he loses weight. Anything less is encouraging his unhealthy lifestyle. Don't love him anyway, because that's wrong. Got it.

[Silverstarqueen]

I can't remember the last time anyone asked me if it was okay for them to smoke. or eat. So unless they do, I am not about to give them my opinion.
Actually come to think of it there was once when a young man (I didn't know him) asked me to buy cigarettes for him from a corner store. Under the circumstances, he did get a lecture.
Why do people think it is their business if someone else wants to smoke, eat, drink, not exercise much, excercise excessively etc (provided that no laws are being broken). Maybe that guy who is exercising three hourse a day is neglecting his family, whose business is it, but his, or his family's?

[whatwhat]

I can't remember the last time anyone asked me if it was okay for them to smoke. or eat.
Why do people think it is their business if someone else wants to smoke, eat, drink, not exercise much, excercise excessively etc (provided that no laws are being broken). Maybe that guy who is exercising three hourse a day is neglecting his family, whose business is it, but his, or his family's?

Not to mention how harmful eating disorders are such as excessive exercise, and orthorexia. They can be seen as healthy when in turn they are a mental illness and are extremely harmful towards the individual.

[Osoyoos_Familyof4]

I'd also like to point out that the "trend" in regards to employing "Plus Size Models" is often (not all the time... but often) nothing more than hyperbole.

The average "Plus Size Model" falls between 14-16 dress size. At this dress size most women fall into the "normal BMI" definition. The big deal is that we are used to seeing these thin models all the time, that when a "normal BMI" model walks down the runway we think it's some major triumph.

I simply don't much see clothing designers and brands targeting morbidly obese women, or even obese women (no morbid). Thin is still considered the "goal" of most young women. I don't see a renegade (really small r renegade) ad changing that. I think it's intent is shock value, and to create a buzz, which apparently in that respect it's successful. I do however appreciate the shots of "strong-women" with fit muscular bodies. I just don't see a 9th Grader who wear anything over a size 14 really proud of her curves and possibly extra pounds (and I see a lot of kids).

As well, I personally find "uncouth" behaviour in public (such as: burping, farting, sitting-all-sprawled) as offensive in women as in men.

Another interesting fact about all this is that the whole "empowerment message" and I've put that in quotations because I feel like any clothing manufacturing advertiser is really about empowering anyone, it's about selling clothes: Is that we don't see similar marketing towards men. There has always been XL, XXL, XXXL shirts in mainstream men's stores, unlike women's apparel. An overweight man has traditionally been considered as "a big teddy bear", an overweight woman... not so much!

Obesity is no-joke, but the distinction between slightly overweight/overweight/obese/morbidly obese is a very important distinction if we're talking co-morbidities. You can be very healthy and fit in the "overweight" category, morbid obesity... not so much (or not for long).

[JLives]

Advertising has a big effect on how we view women sadly. I am liking the trend that says a woman can wear whatever she wants and it does not change her as a person. It's about time. Body shaming is terrible and really harms women's self confidence. Don't you think overweight women know they are overweight? That doesn't mean they are any less of a person or someone to be shunned. We come in all shapes and sizes and it's nice to be celebrating our individuality.

[Atomoa]

We come in all shapes and sizes and it's nice to be celebrating our individuality.

There is a huge difference between shaming and not encouraging.

Telling men or women that it's ok to be fat is wrong scientifically. In the last 30 years we've created a lot of fat people and that has nothing to do with "how they were born".

This isn't like having a big nose or a disability. We should all celebrate uniqueness but being a tubby human is not unique - its unhealthy and has come about due to poor diet and exercise. I won't chide someone for their looks but I can chide them for their behaviour that they can change, if it's socially regressive. I certainly wouldn't excuse and encourage it.

Smoking. Living unhealthy lives. 2 great examples. Telling overweight men and women "it's ok" and that they are beautiful and that we should make efforts to accommodate and accept them in society is like telling smokers they are beautiful and going out of our way to create more smoking sections in public spaces while hoping that they quit.

I'm not advocating shaming. I'm saying encouraging it and promoting acceptance of it is wrong.

As mentioned this is all about selling consumer goods. Be fat- be anything - as long as you keep buying things.

[alfred2]

Are you looking like charlles atls, or like a human ?

[Silverstarqueen]

We seem to have a confusion here between what is aesthetically acceptable or even desirable (beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and the standards change with the times), and what is medically recommended.
If being overweight was not "acceptable" medically, why are so many doctors overweight?

A doctor, or perhaps a caring loving family member, might want to discuss the health benefits of certain diet or exercise approaches. But everyone else should probably butt out.

If someone want to carry the risk of too many extra pounds (or to smoke, or jump off cliffs), I don't think I can be of much help by declaring them "unacceptable". Any more than i can decide for them, if they should be pregnant, or even qualify as a parent.
Even the medical profession, until recently could not seem to come up with a recommended diet to help overweight customers.
While we have possibly a million different commercially offered diet or weight loss programs, very few seem to be successful. And now it seems the research is questioning a lot of the advice that was handed out in times gone by.
so maybe that is why we have more overweight people than ever, who have tried more diets than ever before, and most with limited success.
So until the doctors can actually come up with some answers for folks,as to what actually works (given that stomach bypasses are not easily available), i think we should "accept" that a lot of people are still struggling to find the right answers.

In case people are thinking that it is simple, I recently read research where a group of obese people followed an intense exercise program, and found that they did not consistently lose much if any weight. Similar results have been found with some diet programs recommended by doctors. Personally, I even tried a Vegan diet, just for the heckuvit(can't get much more healthy than that, and found that I ended up over 25 pounds heavier, than on my current diet. And incidentally my blood sugar went off the charts too, from the weight gain. Same person, same level of exercise, eating without starving myself with both diets.

[Mr Danksworth]

Obese people are disgusting and a burden on the health system. The HAES/body positivity (non)movement do nothing but enable the fattes to keep on being fat. Every person I've ever known who has lost weight didn't do it because of these (non)movements. They did it because they knew that being fat was both unattractive and unhealthy. That landwhale, Tess whatshername, is an obese model, is a role model for diabetes, joint problems, heart and liver disease, and early death. Yay! Keep on celebrating your short road to the grave. The sooner you get there, the nicer the view will be on the beach.

Why is it ok to shame smokers for their personal health choices and not not obese people. At least smokers pay more into the system through taxes for the inevitable negative health outcomes. Obese people not so much. They demand more space for their girth, demand two seats for the price of one, demand that society accommodate their bodies. Screw that.

[Always Sunny]

...For goodness sake, Marilyn Monroe was a size 12/14 and no one called HER fat that I can remember!

This has been disproven many times. Based on her actual measurements in inches, she was literally about a size 2-4 in today's sizing. There really wasn't much as far as 0,2,4, etc. sizing back then. Today's UK sizing is actually closer (I have to order a UK 10-12 when I'm around a US 4).

From experience it seems like H&M is also trying to quiet some haters about their sizing. One of my fave comedy bits on YouTube is about inconsistency in sizing..."why am I a size 'mouse' at Gap and a size 'walrus' at H&M".

Be a walrus ladies!

[Poindexter]

Obese people are disgusting and a burden on the health system. The HAES/body positivity (non)movement do nothing but enable the fattes to keep on being fat. Every person I've ever known who has lost weight didn't do it because of these (non)movements. They did it because they knew that being fat was both unattractive and unhealthy. That landwhale, Tess whatshername, is an obese model, is a role model for diabetes, joint problems, heart and liver disease, and early death. Yay! Keep on celebrating your short road to the grave. The sooner you get there, the nicer the view will be on the beach.

Why is it ok to shame smokers for their personal health choices and not not obese people. At least smokers pay more into the system through taxes for the inevitable negative health outcomes. Obese people not so much. They demand more space for their girth, demand two seats for the price of one, demand that society accommodate their bodies. Screw that.

Were you aware that being angry is unhealthy? It suppresses the immune system making you sick more often than others. It negatively effects the cardio vascular system with direct links to high blood pressure, strokes and heart disease. It causes depression negatively effecting both personal and professional relationships making them less productive. In other words anger is an expensive indulgence that's a drain on our system. Too bad there wasn't a way to tax angry people more so they could cover their cost to society.

[Barney Google]

This has been disproven many times. Based on her actual measurements in inches, she was literally about a size 2-4 in today's sizing. There really wasn't much as far as 0,2,4, etc. sizing back then. Today's UK sizing is actually closer (I have to order a UK 10-12 when I'm around a US 4).

From experience it seems like H&M is also trying to quiet some haters about their sizing. One of my fave comedy bits on YouTube is about inconsistency in sizing..."why am I a size 'mouse' at Gap and a size 'walrus' at H&M".

Be a walrus ladies!

LOL...Yes, you are correct Sunny...there are conflicting stories on MM size. I have seen some places where it was noted her being a size 16 at one point - which I don't believe. I do though think that we can pretty much bank that she fluctuated somewhere between and 8 and a 12 during her lifetime in the 'spot light'. Either way, she was considered quite beautiful and sexy as was Rachel Welch and Gina Lollobrigida both of whom were voluptuous figured women and considered very desirable and certainly 'healthy' enough.

Size "Walrus"...lol...you have GOT to be kidding me!?!?!?
Obviously, I don't get out enough...