No minimum wage for WHL players

[JayByrd]

Did we forget about the minor pro leagues ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_i ... ofessional

Well he did say "in Canada". There are four minor pro teams in Canada, but none of them are in Canadian-based leagues.

[techrtr]

Not every player who goes the Jr A route earns a scholarship though. In fact, only a fraction of them do. A fringe player in the WHL (who might not be much more than that if he'd gone Jr A) still gets a year of tuition and books paid for, for every year he's on the team. And that's not limited to college/university. I recall one WHL alum using his education money to attend flight school.

I don't think anyone's saying that the players don't deserve compensation. But, they are being compensated, just not in the form of a wage. Would making ten bucks an hour make it worth the loss of all the stuff they're getting for free now?

True, but not all players are university material. Case in point, I have a nephew who played 4 or 5 years in the WHL. He was eligible to have his tuition paid for 4 or 5 years (not an insignificant amount of money). After his WHL career was done, he tried university and played on the university team (in Canada and I think his room and board was paid for so in effect it was like a full scholarship). However, he couldn't make it in university and lasted less than a semester so all of that money he accrued was wasted.

I'm not saying that WHL players should be paid a wage but I think there are good arguments for and against. Somehow it seems wrong that team owners are making money off of these kids and they don't have to pay them (you can argue that they pay into a scholarship fund but let's see the accounting on that).

[my5cents]

Well he did say "in Canada". There are four minor pro teams in Canada, but none of them are in Canadian-based leagues.

... and what does "Canadian based leagues" mean.

The NHL is "Canadian based" ?

The WHL has American teams, the NHL has US and Canadian, the minor pro leagues have US and Canadian.

If you are talking Canadian teams, I guess last year with no Canadian NHL team getting into the playoffs, maybe some would feel that the WHL was to a higher standard than the NHL.

[my5cents]

Kind of a double edged sword, isn't it. Even though they get paid a very small amount of money, WHL players are considered professionals and they lose their eligibility to play college hockey. So what do you do, go the college route and have an education to fall back on or play in the WHL? Not that long ago, a lot of NHL players probably had off season jobs because they didn't get paid that much playing hockey. Those days are loooong gone and maybe it's time for the WHL to follow suit.

I can see the owners not wanting to pay their players and of course, they're going to plead poverty. Let's face it though, the WHL of today is not like the WHL of 30 years ago. Junior hockey is becoming more and more like professional hockey all the time. No more playing in war era barns that seat 2000 like the Memorial Arena. Since WHL players already sacrifice their eligibility to play college hockey, they might as well be getting paid at least minimum wage. After all, the team owners are making money off of them.

You sound like you are saying that if a WHL hockey player isn't eligible to play college hockey that he can't attend the college.

You say : "So what do you do, go the college route and have an education to fall back on or play in the WHL?

The majority of the years that these kids are playing WHL hockey they are attending high school. For each year they play they get a year of tuition for a college (up to 5). Each team is only allowed 3 over 19 years old players, so these ex-WHL players are just reaching a good age to attend a post secondary institution at the time they leave the WHL.

They're not really "over the hill" for obtaining an post secondary education. Also with a free year for each year played in the WHL.

[techrtr]

You sound like you are saying that if a WHL hockey player isn't eligible to play college hockey that he can't attend the college.

You say : "So what do you do, go the college route and have an education to fall back on or play in the WHL?

The majority of the years that these kids are playing WHL hockey they are attending high school. For each year they play they get a year of tuition for a college (up to 5). Each team is only allowed 3 over 19 years old players, so these ex-WHL players are just reaching a good age to attend a post secondary institution at the time they leave the WHL.

They're not really "over the hill" for obtaining an post secondary education. Also with a free year for each year played in the WHL.

What I should have said is that WHL players lose their eligibility to receive scholarships. For each year they play in the WHL they get a year of paid tuition. However, just because someone has their tuition paid for for 4 or 5 years doesn't mean that they're going be able to complete their studies. As I said, I'm not saying that WHL players should or shouldn't get paid but I do think that maybe it's time to consider it. WHL teams are money making businesses, more so now than they ever were in the past. Maybe they should be sharing the wealth with their talent. Just sayin'.

[my5cents]

I don't know how much WHL players are given in allowances, plus their room and board, and as we've both agreed the tuition.

While they are playing hockey, attracting paying customers for the WHL team, they are also gaining a world class education in playing hockey. That hockey education earns some players tens of millions.

Some young men who are not gifted enough to be drafted by Major Junior, or Junior A or B teams, pay (or at least their families) for training at various hockey academies.

Should the value of the training and accommodations afforded the junior team players be factored into the hourly wage ?

It's generally accepted that the WHL, or perhaps I should say the Major Junior Hockey program best prepares hockey players for careers in the NHL more than any other junior or college program.

Governments pay grants and help Olympic athletes. Should that be boiled down to a dollar amount per hour ?

The goal of being chosen to play in the WHL is based on a desire to learn and play hockey at the highest level available to a young hockey player, not for the purpose of earning a small wage.

I think as a society we would do better to worry about paying underpaid workers who are working to put food on their families table a fair wage instead of fixing something that is not broken.

[Atomoa]

I think as a society we would do better to worry about paying underpaid workers who are working to put food on their families table a fair wage instead of fixing something that is not broken.

Everyone deserves minimum wage. I agree that WHL players have good perks. I do not agree it would create a financial hardship for the league to pay them minimum wage. I find it interesting that many people on this forum often comment that service sector employees are "lucky" to get minimum wage and are not worth the wage, but yet also feel that elite athletes do not deserve it.

Interesting how class in society changes one's viewpoints and perspective.

I just thought it curious that they weren't paid minimum wage, and in order to be consistent with my views on unpaid internships, TFW's and wage suppression I thought this thread would be interesting to create.

The goal of being chosen to play in the WHL is based on a desire to learn and play hockey at the highest level available to a young hockey player, not for the purpose of earning a small wage.

The same type of logic you are using is usually used to justify unpaid internships and low wages as well.

"If you want to be in Radio/TV/Arts/Trades/IT (basically every industry nowadays) then you'll work for free and prove yourself dedicated.

[GordonH]

<<deleted by poster>>

[StraitTalk]

I don't know how much WHL players are given in allowances, plus their room and board, and as we've both agreed the tuition.

While they are playing hockey, attracting paying customers for the WHL team, they are also gaining a world class education in playing hockey. That hockey education earns some players tens of millions.

Some young men who are not gifted enough to be drafted by Major Junior, or Junior A or B teams, pay (or at least their families) for training at various hockey academies.

Should the value of the training and accommodations afforded the junior team players be factored into the hourly wage ?

It's generally accepted that the WHL, or perhaps I should say the Major Junior Hockey program best prepares hockey players for careers in the NHL more than any other junior or college program.

Governments pay grants and help Olympic athletes. Should that be boiled down to a dollar amount per hour ?

The goal of being chosen to play in the WHL is based on a desire to learn and play hockey at the highest level available to a young hockey player, not for the purpose of earning a small wage.

I think as a society we would do better to worry about paying underpaid workers who are working to put food on their families table a fair wage instead of fixing something that is not broken.

You ask a lot of perfectly fair questions and I can't help but wonder how many underprivileged hockey players don't proceed due to financial reasons. I guess what I'm saying is some clubs are making a lot of money off of what they're doing and though you have a point with the free education, the training and experience are a byproduct of the activity, not something the club could provide without the player in first place - these players should be getting paid a very reasonable amount if their clubs can afford to do so. We know many are perfectly capable - potentially all.

There are still so many unanswered questions here. I am still really curious as to just what all these clubs are taking away in profit at the end of the day and how many players are already being paid, because as I said, many players we see in the NHL today that I personally knew in their CHL days were being paid.

I completely agree with your last two points, but to your last I ask, where do you draw the line? Are those in entertainment and sports exempt?

[my5cents]

You ask a lot of perfectly fair questions and I can't help but wonder how many underprivileged hockey players don't proceed due to financial reasons. I guess what I'm saying is some clubs are making a lot of money off of what they're doing and though you have a point with the free education, the training and experience are a byproduct of the activity, not something the club could provide without the player in first place - these players should be getting paid a very reasonable amount if their clubs can afford to do so. We know many are perfectly capable - potentially all.

There are still so many unanswered questions here. I am still really curious as to just what all these clubs are taking away in profit at the end of the day and how many players are already being paid, because as I said, many players we see in the NHL today that I personally knew in their CHL days were being paid.

I completely agree with your last two points, but to your last I ask, where do you draw the line? Are those in entertainment and sports exempt?

Like you, I don't know what amount the players receive from the clubs as an allowance, they do get free room and board, education counselling, tuition 1 year for 1 year to a max of 5.

Does the star player get a larger allowance ? I don't know.

If you paid each player a minimum wage do you base it on 40 hours as a basic salary. What happens when the utility player that will never make the NHL gets the same wage as the superstar ?

Not all endeavors can be rolled into a wage. Soldiers don't get so much an hour, imagine paying per hour to a soldier in a war.

It's a hard one.

[JayByrd]

The weekly stipend increases as the players get older. 16 yr olds get X, 17 yr olds get Y, etc. I seem to remember there being certain ways that older players could receive more money, but I don't know what that was about.

Players receiving above and beyond that amount from their junior teams would be outside the rules. Not saying it doesn't happen, but you won't see those figures reported anywhere.

StraitTalk, I know you're no newbie when it comes to hockey, but I have to ask...the payment those players received, are you sure it was coming from the junior team, and not a signing bonus from an NHL contract?

[StraitTalk]

I'm not sure and I've been wondering that myself.

Myers was signed in 08, Barrie in 09. This would have been after I went to school with them.

[GordonH]

I'm not sure and I've been wondering that myself.

Myers was signed in 08, Barrie in 09. This would have been after I went to school with them.

Myers signed entry level contract May of 2009, NHL start salary of 875,000 AHL salary of 65,000.
Barrie signed entry level contract March of 2011, NHL start salary of 615,000 AHL salary of 67,500

[StraitTalk]

Myers signed entry level contract May of 2009, NHL start salary of 875,000 AHL salary of 65,000.
Barrie signed entry level contract March of 2011, NHL start salary of 615,000 AHL salary of 67,500

What!? I... I have to look into this later.

[GordonH]

^^^ Got the info from this site & they got it from Cap Geek https://www.capfriendly.com/