Topless Beaches?

[Osoyoos_Familyof4]

I tried looking this up, but I am just not sure what is the clear information?

Tonight we were at an Osoyoos beach and bylaw enforcement came by and told a family with 2x - 6yr old girls that they needed to put on their shirts. The family obviously were just out for a play on the playground but the kids wanted to go swimming in their underwear.

I questioned the bylaw enforcement as I thought I had remembered reading about a Kelowna woman who challenged the law and was deemed correct?

Bylaws reasoning was that it's considered indecent exposure and they are just "protecting children" from potential predators

Does anyone know if local bylaws can contravene law?

Does anyone know FOR SURE what the law is? And are there age-appropriate measures?

Does anyone know if there are caveats about where topless is legal or not? because in this case it was at a park with a playground structure which happened to be a park at the beach?

Do you think it's right that a bylaw enforcement can decide to "protect" a child against predators in this way - even with a parent present?

It seemed a little over zealous to me, but I dunno what I dunno.

What says the rabble?

[spooker]

Provincial laws can allow for municipal laws to override them. I.e. Maple Ridge has a bylaw allowing cyclists on the sidewalk whereas the BC MVA doesn't allow it.

Not sure about Osoyoos and their topless laws. But knowing my own daughter's penchant for going in the water I'd consider it a little overzealous too. And for most at those young ages you can't really tell the boys from the girls.

[Queen K]

I'm thinking the officers know that child predators are out there with cameras. It's too easy to take photos of other people's kids these days, ask me, I'm an amateur photographer.

I wonder if we can ever go back to being a normal society again.

[LTD]

pretty sure I woulda told bylaws guy to go fornicate himself

[Osoyoos_Familyof4]

Thanks, I find it a bummer that bylaws can supercede provincial laws, because otherwise what kind of teeth can a provincial law have if it's unenforceable in most areas?

Could they do this with say something like marijuana? OR does the fact that you would have to do this on your own legal property make the difference as opposed to a town/city park (which I would assume would be illegal as smoking anything in a park is illegal)? What about using a vapourizer in a public place, is this considered smoking still?

I felt bad for this family, and I was embarrassed for them that this happened as visitors to our town. I wanted to tell the bylaw lady to get lost, but she was just doing her job I guess. Truthfully I wonder if she would have normally let it go, but complicating matters was that they had their dog off-leash and in the water at a designated roped off swim area.

Do you think there could be a topless allowed caveat under a certain age? And if so, what age? How could this be enforced? I mean a thin child under puberty more than likely will not have developed breasts, but I suppose what do you do IF they do? Some boys/men certainly have developed breast fat deposits.

I hear what "Queen" is saying too about perverted photographers. After that guy recently was pounded by a Dad in the Central Okanagan for jerking off in his car in a playground park, it sure does make you more aware. But as an example, that guy was getting off on clothed children, so does it even matter that the little girls happened to be topless when a pervert can get off a million ways to Sunday clothes or not?

As an aside, I was once in Penticton swimming pools change room with our girls after swimming lessons, before the newer facility was built. The new facility has a family changing area, but the old one didn't. You would always see mothers with little boys in the girls changing area too and b-t-w this mattered not at all to me. Anyhow, one day after the kids got their final report card and badges, a Mom was innocently taking photos in the change room of her child holding up the badge and report card. I understood that she just had a brain fart, and didn't even realize that all the other people in the background of the photo would be in her frame. I brought it to her attention in a nice way and we shared a laugh, and she put away her phone realizing her social faux pas. I suppose I could have been upset as I was standing there in my bra and underwear drying my girls hair, but hey, accidents happen and she was just not reading her situation well and it happens. My point is that a pervert can get photos of children many ways legal, not legal, under he guise of an "accident" or "intentional" etc.

Thanks for the input. If I got a good legal basis, I might bring this to town council for consideration if I had a more intelligent argument other than it *bleep* me off! I might try to go topless myself the next time just to test the system, but I fear it would mortify my older tween who already is mortified that I even leave the house!

[GordonH]

Unfortunately there are really screwed up people out there with sick minds, that take pictures of young children or worse.
That need professional help as well court ordered don't come within X hundreds of meters of children.

Added: I'm being very restraint in my wording

[maryjane48]

true but theres more of that going on the internet and yet we still have internet . if there were clothing optional beaches like wreck beach then it would be self regulating . show up with a camera out you go .

[spooker]

I did some searching and while I couldn't find the exact bylaw it was mentioned in several articles from 2015 when the "Go Topless" rally was held in Penticton that Osoyoos does have a bylaw prohibiting women from going topless ... and yes, you re correct in the the BC Supreme court decided in 2000 that "municipal bylaws prohibiting such acts contravened the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms" ...

So if someone gets ticketed for the offense they could take it to court using that decision as a defense and finally get the law changed ...

(edited for clarity and better understanding)

[Osoyoos_Familyof4]

Ugh.. Thanks Spooker :)

I would challenge as you said if I got such a bylaw ticket...but I didn't and it wasn't my fight anyway as I was the (apparently apathetic) bystander.

What a stupid forken bylaw.

[Hermes]

http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/2/0/6/2062336 ... ba288ef5ee

Do you give your skin the sun or take supplements? I do both, varying the ratio according to season and where I am.

I do notice however that people look at me as if I am rude when I go shirtless. Of course when I am socially interacting with people or going into a store etc I put on my shirt, even button it up mostly. But the Koreans and Iranians here in Coquitlam seem to find my semi-fat naked chest offensive. What is the attitude in OK, other than on the beach?

Surprises me that still people are living in the ignorance of the 40-50 years when we thought the sun was bad. Even most cyclists wear a lot of clothes.

On a related subject I notice a clothing androgynization and de-sexualization, a trend toward conservative but non-binary gender dress, particularly in girls and women, compared to 1973-1983. I even see skirts PLUS leggings. Seems like hijab compared to the seventies. In Singapore a lot of females wear short shorts (only the Chinese ones, not the Malay or Indian ones).

[maryjane48]

there is that . the sun is getting more dangerous for exposure . see people getting 2 degree burns now

[emc group]

so, how did bylaw officer know it was a girl, I have a friend who has a 5 year old boy that has never had his hair cut, could pass either way.

[forum]

Listen guys.
Most of us don't think the way a sexual predator does.
So it doesn't pass through your mind that someone will grab one of your daughters and r8pe them.

When an officer tells your kids to cover up, cover up now.
The officer is probably aware of things in the area that you're not.

Stop being so naive... for the safety of your children.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1285712/Twelve-year-old-girl-taken-beach-raped-two-men.html

[Bsuds]

It's legal in BC and my understanding in all of Canada as it's against the charter to discriminate according to sex and men go topless all the time.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... -1.3170353

Tell the Bylaw person to learn the Law.