#MeToo

[MAPearce]

What if , as a WASP male , I started a movement called " I didn't " ?

Would I get any respect for NOT treating women as objects , or would I get lumped in with those who did anyway like I do now ???

[MAPearce]

Something I read on my sisters FB wall...

With plenty of time on my hands, I’ve been contemplating this whole “me too” thing and until now I’ve not commented on it - here’s why.
I have been sexually harassed and assaulted, yes. I have also objectified men, made assumptions about them based on physical appearance and worked my physical “assets” to my advantage. I’ve never sexually assaulted anyone, but I’m certain that if I’m being totally honest - I have made men uncomfortable or unhappy because of how I treated them. I’m happy that women are speaking out, but I’m a bit disappointed that I don’t see men doing it, too. There should be no double standard; nobody - woman or man - should feel degraded. I’m not trying to pick a fight, it’s just my thought. And now back to my regularly scheduled feed

How many of you " Me too" people are willing to admit the same ?

[Fancy]

No, count me out as far as degrading men (there's a reason for that) but your sister is right:

there should be no double standard; nobody - woman or man - should feel degraded.

Men can put #MeToo as well - with WeatherWoman's permission of course - her topic

[MAPearce]

No, count me out as far as degrading men

I believe you Fancy . But how many others on this SJW hot button topic can , if they are completely honest with themselves , say the same thing ?

My reason for asking is , while many these days cry foul for transgressions made against them ,have they forgotten about those they made against others ?

If we were all honest enough with ourselves about how we have treated others in the past , I highly doubt movements like this me too thing would get any attention at all....

[Fancy]

I would love to ask my significant other but I won't - I'm pretty sure (speaking from my own experience) that there are too many men out there are getting screwed worse just because. I'm only lucky because I'm from a strong family and have a great support system in place. I'm thinking a lot of women (or anyone else for that matter) don't have the extensive support that is out there.

[JayByrd]

What if , as a WASP male , I started a movement called " I didn't " ?

Someone beat you to it. #MeToo was quickly followed by #NotAllMen.

[gordon_as]

Seems like several have taken to attacking me for something that I didn't say. Gilchy is the one who brought up the whole "she was asking for it" thing , which works for her/him because it strengthens the "all women are victims" narrative while at the same time reinforcing the "all men are knuckle dragging cretins" narrative.

I wrote my horrible thoughts on a previous post by Davis123 , that said

I definitely have a suggestion for the men...stop sexually objectifying every single woman! JUST STOP!

I probably should have quoted that in my post , but I assumed that people were actually reading and comprehending all the posts . my bad.

Regardless , I stand by my statement that many women go to great lengths to objectify themselves. Hundreds at the mall , and hours in front of a mirror trying to engineer a look that will get a desired reaction. When the right guy accommodates them with the desired reaction , they are on facebook bragging to their girlfriends. When the reaction comes from someone whom they didn't want it from , it's sexual harassment and they run to the computer to add their name to the "me too" list.

[gordon_as]

And what about all the women , who go to great lengths to objectify themselves ? Not talking about strippers either. What about the ones who buy the tinyest bikini , because they think they look totally hot in it ? What about push up bra's ? What about the women who use their looks to advance themselves in life and the workforce ? What about all the older women who hit on me when I was younger and better looking than I am now ? What about all the real victims of sexual assault , who's experience is marginalized by every single woman they know posting "me too" ? Sure is fun to jump on the politically correct bandwagon , too bad there isn't a sign that says "no hypocrites on wagon" .

Anything short of consensual between those involved is assault/sexual assault, it does not matter what the person is wearing.
No... does not mean yes or maybe, anyone who thinks this way is a complete f as hole

And the gold medal for jumping to conclusions goes to you dude. How the heck did you make the jump from " Women objectify themselves" , to no doesn't mean no ? Appears that today , you are the F A .

People sure get testy when confronted with a truth that doesn't fit into their agenda.

[JayByrd]

Regardless , I stand by my statement that many women go to great lengths to objectify themselves. Hundreds at the mall , and hours in front of a mirror trying to engineer a look that will get a desired reaction. When the right guy accommodates them with the desired reaction , they are on facebook bragging to their girlfriends. When the reaction comes from someone whom they didn't want it from , it's sexual harassment and they run to the computer to add their name to the "me too" list.

Well, it isn't harassment, but if you feel this is the real issue society needs to address, you're entitled to that I guess.

[gordon_as]

Well, it isn't harassment, but if you feel this is the real issue society needs to address, you're entitled to that I guess.

Never said this was the real issue , just pointing out that this is part of the problem. By the way , there are tons of ladies who would say that a guy "oogling their cleavage" , or commenting on it , is sexual harassment.

Maybe that is why I have a problem with the OP , and some of the comments , and the whole "me too" campaign. Rape and sexual assault is a no brainier , but as soon as the word harassment gets included you open yourself up to millions of different peoples opinions on what exactly constitutes harassment.

[Fancy]

The following list is not exhaustive, but it should help to identify what may be sexual and gender-based harassment:

demanding hugs[18]
invading personal space[19]
unnecessary physical contact,[20] including unwanted touching,[21] etc.
derogatory language and/or comments toward women[22] (or men, depending on the circumstances), sex-specific derogatory names[23]
leering[24] or inappropriate staring
gender-related comment about a person’s physical characteristics or mannerisms[25]
comments or conduct relating to a person’s perceived non-conformity with a sex-role stereotype[26]
displaying or circulating pornography,[27] sexual pictures or cartoons,[28] sexually explicit graffiti,[29] or other sexual images (including online)
sexual jokes, including circulating written sexual jokes (e.g. by e-mail)[30]
rough and vulgar humour or language related to gender
sexual or gender-related comment or conduct used to bully a person
spreading sexual rumours (including online)[31]
suggestive or offensive remarks or innuendo about members of a specific gender
propositions of physical intimacy
gender-related verbal abuse, threats, or taunting
bragging about sexual prowess
demanding dates or sexual favours
questions or discussions about sexual activities
requiring an employee to dress in a sexualized or gender-specific way[32]
paternalistic behaviour based on gender which a person feels undermines their status or position of responsibility
threats to penalize or otherwise punish a person who refuses to comply with sexual advances (known as reprisal).

http://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/policy-prevent ... harassment

[Fancy]

HOW IS SEXUAL HARASSMENT DEFINED?
One of the leading cases on sexual harassment, Janzen v. Platy Enterprises Ltd., identifies three key elements in its description of sexual harassment in the workplace. They are:

a. Conduct of a sexual nature which is gender based,

b. Conduct that is unwelcome, and

c. Conduct that detrimentally affects the work environment or leads to adverse job- related consequences.

Note, while women typically experience sexual harassment more often than men, sexual harassment can and does happen to men. It can also occur between two people of the same sex.

http://www.bchrc.net/sexual_harassment

http://www.canadianlabourrelations.com/ ... sment.html

[Gilchy]

Never said this was the real issue , just pointing out that this is part of the problem. By the way , there are tons of ladies who would say that a guy "oogling their cleavage" , or commenting on it , is sexual harassment.

Maybe that is why I have a problem with the OP , and some of the comments , and the whole "me too" campaign. Rape and sexual assault is a no brainier , but as soon as the word harassment gets included you open yourself up to millions of different peoples opinions on what exactly constitutes harassment.

Your cleavage example is textbook sexual harassment. Do you honestly not get how these sort of comments, on a continual basis, are harmful? The reason that harassment is being discussed along with abuse and rape is that there is a systemic cultural bias that women exist for men’s pleasure, and the ogling and “comments” serve to perpetuate this dynamic.

The real undercurrent of all of this is power, and how it is used on a widespread basis. Without dismissing how women can comment on men, it is not the same due to different cultural standards. A man telling a women “nice cleavage”, “nice *bleep*”, or even “where’s the smile” are a constant refrain to attempt to remind a women of what her place is, and there is a massive double standard culturally.

[TreeGuy]

At the risk of getting blasted by other members here I am going to jump in and back up Gordon_as.

So let’s set up this scenario:

A girl works at a high end restaurant. She gets ready for work and puts on her LBD, the length is just short enough and tight enough to show off her assets. With the right bra her breasts are pushed up and put on display. Hair and make up done she is a sight to be hold. She goes to work and waits on tables. Rich business men at a table flirt with her, she flirts back and is friendly towards them. The result is a handsome tip. Meanwhile she has been back and forth from the kitchen to the dining room. One of the kitchen staff can’t help but be taken by her and takes lingering glimpses at her cleavage. She now gets to go to management and complain because his glimpses were unwanted. Really?

Did Kaley Cuoco #metoo?

[Fancy]

...She now gets to go to management and complain because his glimpses were unwanted. Really?

Each case would be examined on an individual basis. Restaurant owners and managers are being encouraged to treat their staff with respect which includes the clothing they wear (there have been items in the media).

https://www.pressreader.com/canada/toro ... 6779587442

As far as the dress code - that is changing as well in the industry. What is good for men is good for women which means high heals and short skirts can pose a problem to the restaurant if it results in harassment.