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#MeToo

Social, economic and environmental issues in our ever-changing world.

Re: #MeToo

Postby Silverstarqueen » Dec 5th, 2017, 9:30 am

Regarding Masterson (mentioned above) being "written out" of future episodes of a program. If that is some violation of his contract, he has every legal recourse of the courts. People get written out of series all the time, they don't always like the reasons, there doesn't have to be criminal allegations of rape. In this case there happens to be four women who allege rape, as is their right. If he wants to sue for libel against them, I think he should have at it. In the meantime, he is entitled to a presumption of innocence in a court of law, if charged, which apparently he has not been. But then if he wants to exercise his legal rights, and feels that includes protection of his job, he will also have to follow legal procedure. He certainly can allege that he was "written out" unlawfully, but only a court can decide the merits of that claim.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby maryjane48 » Dec 5th, 2017, 10:01 am

http://m.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/12/04/l ... _23296802/


Im willing to bet this is just tip iceberg for canadian politics :smt045
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Silverstarqueen » Dec 5th, 2017, 10:31 am

Smart guy, quick apology, and letter of contrition. So simple. Public attention quickly moves on.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Symbonite » Dec 5th, 2017, 5:16 pm

has anyone read the story "the boy who cried wolf"? because with all this something is going to give.
**Disclaimer: The above statement is in my OPINION only.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Hassel99 » Dec 5th, 2017, 5:58 pm

Silverstarqueen wrote:
Well I am not going to lie. I have not heard the claim that males (or any victim) must "enjoy" being abused except when it came from abusers,as if it was some valid excuse for their behavior which it isn't(as quoted) so I am not going to lie about that.


It is a pretty well know "thing" in western culture. Its unfortunate that you have your blinders on when it comes to men as victims of abuse.


Here is southpark's take on it. Sorry for the horrible quality.

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Re: #MeToo

Postby liisgo » Dec 5th, 2017, 7:50 pm

maryjane48 wrote:http://m.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/12/04/liberal-sherry-romanado-says-tory-mp-james-bezan-made-humiliating-sexual-remarks-to-her-last-may_a_23296802/


Im willing to bet this is just tip iceberg for canadian politics :smt045


She says, "'Humiliating' Remarks and unwanted comments to me that were sexual in nature" "These comments have caused me great stress and have negatively affected my work environment."

He said, 'this isn't my idea of a threesome,' which was intended as a partisan comment about being in a photo with a Liberal member of caucus," Bezan said in the statement.

Sorry, remarks, like plural, more than one?
The guy said something, one thing that yes, to all you negative people out there, could actually mean something just as simple as, "three people" But a twisted mind needs to translate it into something they want to use against another.
Guess I'll be careful what I say when I arrive at the golf course next year and announce Im in a threesome.
Really, Is there not something very wrong with this person. A politician, someone in power, really has suffered because of this? What a waste of time and an embarrassment to the people that are really subjected to this issue.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby mexi cali » Dec 5th, 2017, 8:45 pm

Ok. At the risk of being repetitive, I was going to start this thread myself but here it is so thanks to WW for making it easy.

I have read some of the posts and they sound pretty much like I thought they might.

If there are any here that sound like what mine is going to be, I apologise because there were simply too many to read but I really wanted to lay this down.

This is not about strippers and women who give of themselves freely (I am not being either judgemental or critical of those who do). This is about those (mostly women) who have found themselves being manipulated by men for their own satisfaction; men who held some sort of power or perceived power over women within their world who felt as though they were somehow entitled to whatever it was they wanted from them.

This isn't about women dressing provocatively and "getting what they deserve". Because there should be no such thing.

I have gone round and round on this topic.

I have stopped reading the details because they are now meaningless and repetitive. I have especially stopped reading about the apologies and the self exhiles toward "rehabilitation" so many of the ousted seem to feel offers some sort of atonement for what really amounts to assault. Nothing more and nothing less.

Like criminals of a more understandable ilk; you know, thieves, drug dealers, murderers, scam artists et al, the only thing they are truly sorry for is that they got caught.

I have never in my life been guilty of cowing a female into sex. I don't think that I ever had anything to lord over any of them anyway that they would fear which would result in "sexual favors" for "career opportunities" which most of these stories seems to have in common.

I have however, been guilty of sexually touching women without invitation on countless occasions.

I never had a woman reproach me for these "invasions" so I never placed a lot of stock in, or thought of myself as being inappropriate.

In todays world, it is very possible that I could have been brought up on charges for my actions. By todays standards though, I would not take the liberties that I did "back in the day".

I make no excuses for my actions other than to say that there was not so much emphasis placed on this type of behavior for whatever reason. Maybe it was the time, I don't know. It was what I knew then.

I am for sure not making any excuses for the behavior perpetuated by the men (mostly) who have been outed because of their behavior.

Full disclosure; It also doesn't surprise me that they behaved the way they did. They did because they could.

Many of the women who have stepped up, maybe most, are speaking about fear.

That is what really stood me up; that there was and is apparently, an epidemic of power mongering over women by men who most would have thought of as intelligent and certainly beyond the need for brutality and demeaning treatment of women. And for what?

Too me, these men are not men at all. They are base creatures and are unworthy of pity. Or understanding.

It amazes and astounds me that this ever growing group of men should ever have had to be told that if you have to force it, you shouldn't. And if you truly are intelligent, then you probably knew at some point that the woman standing in front of you is only there because of who you are.

I was in one of the better garage bands (OK, just OK) back in the day and we had our group of followers, most of whom were female, all of whom were willing, but none of whom ever was coerced into doing anything they didn't want to do. And yes, I know that to be the truth.

I had many an all night "chat" with girls who were too drunk or too emotional or simply not into me to take advantage of.

But I was far from perfect.

This whole thing is scary and it sickens me. And it's so far from over; there is no end in sight because what was once thought of as "nudge nudge, wink, wink" isn't funny anymore.It never was.
Praise the lord and pass the ammunition

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Re: #MeToo

Postby Silverstarqueen » Dec 6th, 2017, 3:56 am

What strikes me is why those who took advantage of others (employees for example, or young teens), had to do so with those particular women (or men where that applies). Generally rich, powerful men, or even moderately successful regular guys could easily attract a number of willing attractive women. Half the population is of the other sex, so there must be roughly enough potential partners, so why does anyone have to force or coerce someone into having sex? Plenty of fish in the sea.
Now if you are an "old" guy like Roy Moore was, and have a penchant for young teens at age 30ish, it does get a bit tricky. But couldn't he find some attractive 25 year olds? He was assistant DA, so surely someone would have found him attractive. Was he so desperate he had to pick on girls too young to even know how to defend themselves?

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Re: #MeToo

Postby Silverstarqueen » Dec 6th, 2017, 4:21 am

liisgo wrote:
maryjane48 wrote:http://m.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/12/04/liberal-sherry-romanado-says-tory-mp-james-bezan-made-humiliating-sexual-remarks-to-her-last-may_a_23296802/


Im willing to bet this is just tip iceberg for canadian politics :smt045


She says, "'Humiliating' Remarks and unwanted comments to me that were sexual in nature" "These comments have caused me great stress and have negatively affected my work environment."

He said, 'this isn't my idea of a threesome,' which was intended as a partisan comment about being in a photo with a Liberal member of caucus," Bezan said in the statement.

Sorry, remarks, like plural, more than one?
The guy said something, one thing that yes, to all you negative people out there, could actually mean something just as simple as, "three people" But a twisted mind needs to translate it into something they want to use against another.
Guess I'll be careful what I say when I arrive at the golf course next year and announce Im in a threesome.
Really, Is there not something very wrong with this person. A politician, someone in power, really has suffered because of this? What a waste of time and an embarrassment to the people that are really subjected to this issue.


We don't know what the other "remarks" (plural) were, or the circumstances, so who can judge whether an average person would have felt "humiliated" or stressed? He apologized, and I think that was accepted, and so why continue to dwell on it? Especially when the actor is prepared to clean up their act in future.

The bigger contraversy is around more serious transgressions in the growing number of allegations. There is a world of difference between one misunderstood "flippant " comment like the one above, and multiple allegations of rape, or molesting young teens, or constant harassing that many people have encountered in the workplace or their daily lives.

Yes, people have to call out those isolated incidents, to hopefully stop them from becoming a habit, a pattern of harassment, or just plain commonly accepted bad behavior in a workplace. But then look at the back lash when they do. Mixed messages everywhere. People say, why didn't they say something at the time, years ago? and then when someone does report an incident, out come the critics, well it was just this once, it wasn't too bad, what's the big deal? Every workplace should have clear standards of acceptable behavior, and a clear procedure as to how to handle complaints and transgressions. Not much is going to change, not much has changed, if every complaint is going to be met with: Innocent until proven guilty! even when there are a dozen women lined up alleging transgressions and prepared to go to court. An example being the seeming acceptance of Trump's bad behavior against quite a few women. How is it being addressed? Not at all, just denial, so that behavior is going to have to go to the courts.

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Re: #MeToo

Postby Silverstarqueen » Dec 6th, 2017, 8:04 am

Will the wave of change take hold and continue?

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#213335
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Symbonite » Dec 6th, 2017, 9:39 am

Just a FYI to everyone....do not hang that mistletoe up this year.
**Disclaimer: The above statement is in my OPINION only.

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Re: #MeToo

Postby Gilchy » Dec 6th, 2017, 11:46 am

Silverstarqueen wrote:What strikes me is why those who took advantage of others (employees for example, or young teens), had to do so with those particular women (or men where that applies). Generally rich, powerful men, or even moderately successful regular guys could easily attract a number of willing attractive women. Half the population is of the other sex, so there must be roughly enough potential partners, so why does anyone have to force or coerce someone into having sex? Plenty of fish in the sea.
Now if you are an "old" guy like Roy Moore was, and have a penchant for young teens at age 30ish, it does get a bit tricky. But couldn't he find some attractive 25 year olds? He was assistant DA, so surely someone would have found him attractive. Was he so desperate he had to pick on girls too young to even know how to defend themselves?


Can't remember where I heard/saw this quote, but: "Everything is about sex! Except sex, that is about power". These abusers and harassers picked their victims specifically because they enjoyed the feeling of power, not the sexual attraction. Weinstein and co. answering the door to females naked is a prime example of this, not about "pleasure" per se, rather getting off on the power they hold over the victim.

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Re: #MeToo

Postby Silverstarqueen » Dec 6th, 2017, 1:56 pm

I thought the "position of power" aspect was more taking advantage of the situation that the victim (having little to no power) would have little credibility, or liklihood of reporting or being believed if they did report (feared losing their jobs etc). Sure these guys are also on an ego trip on top of that, and care absolutely nothing about the feelings of the victim. I wonder if there are interviews with offenders after the fact, if you ever could get an honest explanation out them, as to what their motivations were.
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#metoo named times person of the year

Postby maryjane48 » Dec 6th, 2017, 4:14 pm

http://www.cbc.ca/1.4435005

Interesting indeed considering trump is accused abuser
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Symbonite » Dec 8th, 2017, 2:54 pm

https://breaking.americanewshub.com/201 ... m=facebook

I know that this website probably has their own agenda but it shows that if someone doesnt like you they make false claims and tanks a persons career without its day in court.

Like i said..its like the story the boy who cried wolf....say it too many times without the actual proof then people will disregard it as verbal clickbait
**Disclaimer: The above statement is in my OPINION only.
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