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Sexism in hiring teachers

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Sexism in hiring teachers

Postby Queen K » Oct 20th, 2017, 8:29 pm

What happens to students who never or rarely experience a male role model at the elementary level of education? The Green Barbarian and I have been talking about this very subject and I offered to throw it to the wolves, errrr, castanet posters to offer up their opinions. So here goes:

If the school districts were to even hiring practices out, they would stop hiring female teachers and exclusively focus on hiring men applying for the elementary school level of teaching, primarily grades 1 thru 7.


https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SE.PRM.TCHR.FE.ZS

According to the Worldbank, The male teacher role is disappearing or greatly diminishing. Don't forget, in Canada, our population of school children is holding steady or declining, thus the lower hiring rate, but it still shows the female teachers as being hired more often.

And if you read this article, men don't want to teach at all:

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/n ... dmail.com&

"
"It is now possible for a child in Canada to go through elementary school and high school and never see a male at the front of the class," says Jon Bradley, an associate professor of education at McGill University, where men make up just five per cent of the elementary teachers in training."

I wonder how many male teachers are increasingly anxious in today's highly sexualized World with children having no accountability and all the information and court cases at their finger tips on the internet.

It's odd that I just finished reading J.K. Rowling's The Casual Vacancy and one of the characters is a male principal, terrified of being accused of being sexually inappropriate with children. To the point of intense therapy just to keep his position.

Should School districts assist in correcting the imbalance by placing a hiring freeze on female teachers and instead choose applicants who are male? Hiring practices would assist in replacing male role models in our education system, no?

Since gender balance is increasingly important in public offices, then should it not be important in the public school system?
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Re: Sexism in hiring teachers

Postby seewood » Oct 20th, 2017, 10:07 pm

Perhaps male teachers are afraid of looking at a youngster without being charged for one thing or another. Again hope I'm wrong.
What, if any, are the pay scales compared to secondary and primary teaching?
Me thinks in primary teaching the teacher was well versed in all the subjects while secondary in perhaps 2-3 subjects?

I dunno really, in the 60's, my primary teaching ratio was perhaps 60-40 male-female....
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Re: Sexism in hiring teachers

Postby FreeRights » Oct 21st, 2017, 7:23 am

seewood wrote:Perhaps male teachers are afraid of looking at a youngster without being charged for one thing or another. Again hope I'm wrong.
What, if any, are the pay scales compared to secondary and primary teaching?
Me thinks in primary teaching the teacher was well versed in all the subjects while secondary in perhaps 2-3 subjects?

I dunno really, in the 60's, my primary teaching ratio was perhaps 60-40 male-female....

I don't think it has anything to do with "looking at a youngster" as I don't think anyone who was charged for sexual conduct with a youngster certainly were not just looking at them.

Its interesting. I'd like to know if the gender imbalance is such because of sexism, or potentially more likely, simply a shortage of male applicants. If that's the case, you shouldn't hire more males as a rule, you'd continue to hire the most qualified applicants regardless of gender.
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Re: Sexism in hiring teachers

Postby The Green Barbarian » Oct 21st, 2017, 8:43 am

FreeRights wrote:
Its interesting. I'd like to know if the gender imbalance is such because of sexism, or potentially more likely, simply a shortage of male applicants. If that's the case, you shouldn't hire more males as a rule, you'd continue to hire the most qualified applicants regardless of gender.


My thought when talking to Queen K was simply this:

It seems to be a huge issue for feminists whenever or wherever there is an imbalance in favor of males. No matter the shortage of female applicants. This included federal cabinet ministers, for some reason. In the case of teachers, where the imbalance is going the other way, and getting worse, not one shrieking feminist can be found babbling about "gender inequality". Why is that? Is it pure hypocrisy? Or is "gender inequality" something that really doesn't matter, and should just be dropped as a "thing".

Queen K and I would like to know your thoughts.
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Re: Sexism in hiring teachers

Postby JLives » Oct 21st, 2017, 9:27 am

Male role models are vital in the upbringing of our kids and we should definitely be making an effort to encourage more males to be teachers.

When my dad passed and we moved from up North I was lucky to have Mr. Hanson as my Grade 2 teacher. He was incredibly kind to me when I most needed it. My kids have had male caregivers and teachers and had good experiences with them too. But it's not enough. We need more men in teaching.
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Re: Sexism in hiring teachers

Postby FreeRights » Oct 21st, 2017, 9:51 am

The Green Barbarian wrote:
My thought when talking to Queen K was simply this:

It seems to be a huge issue for feminists whenever or wherever there is an imbalance in favor of males. No matter the shortage of female applicants. This included federal cabinet ministers, for some reason. In the case of teachers, where the imbalance is going the other way, and getting worse, not one shrieking feminist can be found babbling about "gender inequality". Why is that? Is it pure hypocrisy? Or is "gender inequality" something that really doesn't matter, and should just be dropped as a "thing".

Queen K and I would like to know your thoughts.

I actually agree with what you're saying, as there's lots of examples of people encouraging businesses to hire women if they aren't proportionally represented. There is also the same push to hire more people who represent visible minorities.

I have absolutely no problem with programs designed to encourage specific groups of people to become qualified and apply for certain jobs or industries - the more qualified applicants available in the talent pool, the better. That being said, I for one have always been of the position that hiring should be done solely based on qualifications, experience, and ability. If you start adding gender to the requirements, soon you'll find race and sexual orientation, among others, as being part of the hiring process. None of which do I agree are relevant when hiring.

If school districts start a program to encourage men to become qualified and apply to these positions, that's great. But the hiring should still come down to qualifications, experience, and ability.

I can definitely see the argument that men could push to be priority hires for teachers, and since there are positions where females are sought after, I think it muddies the situation further and oppose gender/race/orientation/etc related hires regardless of the industry.
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Re: Sexism in hiring teachers

Postby Veovis » Oct 21st, 2017, 11:57 am

NO. Just no. There should be no "male first" policy for hiring practices. Best teachers is the option to go with. Just like the concept implemented by Liberal Parties and NDP parties that state you can only hire people based on their genitalia was an ignorant and sexist and discriminatory practice, so would this be.

It would be great to have male teachers. I know my son has excelled far better with male teachers than female teachers but it's because guys understand guys better and girls tend to adapt better at younger ages.

Growing up it was all female in elementary, mixed in middle, and almost entirely male teachers for high school. Things are changing more and more and it would be nice to have a male role model in a kids life, in fact it is beneficial. If you are two happy lesbians with a kid, have a close guy friend be a part of their lives (same with two guys have a woman.) The different genders still part different ways of thinking even if the end result is the same. 2+2=4 but so does 1+3=4. Seeing both helps round out.

That said once again, THIS IS NOT THE SCHOOLS JOB BUT THE PARENTS. The school should not be expected to raise your kids. My kids know they are smart, but I remind them they are ignorant and school can fix that. Their job is to go and learn, their teachers cram it into their heads and I help with the parts that don't always stick right away. If they love some of their teachers along the way I am grateful they had such luck, not all kids will, though most will have at least one. If they are diligent and dutiful, they will be a role model by example but I cannot require them to be a specific brand of role model including me having a say on what in their pants.

Would it be nice to see more male elementary educators, certainly, even more CEA's just to have them around would be of benefit, however we cannot create discriminatory practices no matter the good intention.
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Re: Sexism in hiring teachers

Postby WeatherWoman » Oct 21st, 2017, 12:10 pm

Male teachers are a benefit and right now in BC there is no issues getting a teaching position right of school as we are having a teacher shortage. This the same in childcare.

It's not they are not getting hired, it's that males tend to not gravitate towards becoming a teacher in the same ratio as women. I do think we will start seeing more men enter the field. My nephew is currently finishing school to be a science teacher, my son is thinking about working towards a math teacher. My brother in law is a principal.

I currently have three male staff working in childcare programs and that is the highest it's been in 2 decades. This out of 10 positions. One of them is a manager.
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Re: Sexism in hiring teachers

Postby JLives » Oct 21st, 2017, 12:23 pm

We should also stop demonizing male teachers. Look how many people call our Prime Minister a former drama teacher as if it is an insult.
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Re: Sexism in hiring teachers

Postby Osoyoos_Familyof4 » Oct 21st, 2017, 12:51 pm

There may be more male elementary teachers than you are aware of?

I have no idea what the statistics are, but my slightly higher than anecdotal observations are that there are quite a few. In our local school grade 3-7 are majority male teachers. And I am in/out of many schools and I see plenty of male teachers, but admittedly less in the early primary grades.

When I was in University in the education program my cohort was about 1/4 male, but I do think it might be slightly higher now.

I think males get hired at a good rate, it's just statistically less male applicants in general. Attracting more male applicants is the issue.

Many men resist 6+ years University to start at about $55,000 a year. Especially when until this year you might have to sub 5-10 years to get a contract.

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Re: Sexism in hiring teachers

Postby Veovis » Oct 21st, 2017, 3:39 pm

Considering it's not 6+ years to become a base level teacher saying that "men" aren't willing to do that was just the sexism people are concerned about.

The main issue proposed in this thread isn't why there aren't more male teachers but should we consider ONLY hiring male teachers to balance out the sexes for the benefit of children.

Blaming men isn't an actual answer, however teaching isn't an attractive male profession and a lot of it has little to do with the money and everything to do with the job. Education was once very male orientated in process, boys learned better as it was a curriculum built for them, over time the pendulum swung to the opposite side and we now ban, tag, contact, wrestling, and pretty much everything boys do and girls don't to create a "safe space"....while also ignoring the basic mentalities of growth that are different between boys and girls.

It's a balancing act to be certain and some teachers to it amazingly, some not at all........

but with an education system more geared towards girls should we require more male teachers be hired despite qualifications much like others do for women elsewhere in the name of equality?

Secondly, here is something that may be interesting, ....who commits more sexual assaults in the school system? Men or Women? And based on those stats where should we keep the hiring practices for safety?

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Re: Sexism in hiring teachers

Postby Queen K » Oct 21st, 2017, 4:27 pm

Interestingly enough, there have been a spat of female teachers either being accused of or convicted of having sex with their students.

I don't know if this indicates how effective social media is in outing people, or if the young men are more aware that they were taken advantage of or if there is an upswing in such behavior.
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Re: Sexism in hiring teachers

Postby Piecemaker » Oct 21st, 2017, 6:54 pm

The best candidate for the job should be hired.
There may be less men entering the profession, especially in the elementary years. Most little boys want to be firemen and policemen and truck drivers, not teachers. The higher grades tend to have as many or more male teachers than female, especially if one considers Principals and VPs.
Other professions have more men entering them than in previous decades, such as nursing.
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Re: Sexism in hiring teachers

Postby The Green Barbarian » Oct 21st, 2017, 7:17 pm

JLives wrote:We should also stop demonizing male teachers.


Not sure who is doing this? Who is "we" here exactly?

Look how many people call our Prime Minister a former drama teacher as if it is an insult.


I'd say you are misreading the "insult" here, no doubt deliberately. It's not that JT was a drama teacher, it's that he couldn't cut it as a drama teacher. It's a tough job, and shocker, he couldn't do it.
This isn't demonizing male teachers, it's pointing out that if you are born with a silver spoon in your mouth and a pea for a brain, you probably are going to have a hard time doing hard jobs.
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Re: Sexism in hiring teachers

Postby The Green Barbarian » Oct 21st, 2017, 7:22 pm

Piecemaker wrote:The best candidate for the job should be hired.
There may be less men entering the profession, especially in the elementary years. Most little boys want to be firemen and policemen and truck drivers, not teachers. The higher grades tend to have as many or more male teachers than female, especially if one considers Principals and VPs.
Other professions have more men entering them than in previous decades, such as nursing.


My parents were teachers and I sure didn't want to be one. Listening to stories about how difficult it is dealing with parents, and dealing with extreme left leaning colleagues pushing union propaganda soured me on the profession. I chose a different profession, and have never regretted it.
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