Rant: A prime example of the Sunshine Tax.

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Rant: A prime example of the Sunshine Tax.

Postby zensiert » Nov 22nd, 2017, 4:46 pm

I have just come across one of the most blatantly crazy ads that I have seen in a long time:

SQL Programmer / Database Developer

Knew Realty Research Inc. is your local, Okanagan residential real estate expert. We are at the forefront of innovation when it comes to understanding and reporting the current status and upcoming trends in communities and neighborhoods across the greater region.

We are currently recruiting for a SQL Programmer / Database Developer.

The position will be responsible for creating and maintaining an enterprise data warehouse designed to be the foundation for a new business intelligence reporting tool.

Skills Required:

  • Experience in Data Modeling and Database design
  • Ability to understand and/or construct data warehouses
  • Strong background in SQL Server Integration Services (SSIS) for ETL and SQL Server Reporting Services (SSRS) for report generation
  • Comprehensive grasp of data visualization methods
  • Experience in performance tuning complex queries, procedure and indexing strategies

Job Type:
  • 30 Hours per week, three-month initial contract with possibility of permanent extension.

Job Location:
  • Kelonwa BC

Required education:
  • Post-Secondary school diploma in computer science or related field

Required experience:
  • Previous work experience considered an asset. At the very least the candidate should be able to provide examples of previous work in visualizing reports by querying SQL databases.

Remuneration:
  • $18 to $20 per hour (experience dependent) during initial contract period.

If interested please e-mail your resume or CV to *removed*


And my jaw was left on the floor in sheer astonishment. Is this the mentality of the current crop of Kelowna employers?

Let’s look at those requirements again:

  • Experience in Data Modeling and Database design
  • Ability to understand and/or construct data warehouses
  • Strong background in SQL Server Integration Services (SSIS) for ETL and SQL Server Reporting Services (SSRS) for report generation
  • Comprehensive grasp of data visualization methods
  • Experience in performance tuning complex queries, procedure and indexing strategies

For anyone not in the IT industry, and not a DBA (Database Administrator), these are advanced skills that are only mastered after many years of study and work. Plus, they are asking for someone with a full degree, with four years of study behind them. This is like asking a Certified Accountant or a junior Lawyer to do work at $18-20/hr. Don’t we all wish we could ask that? To have our finances balanced and our legal problems solved for a pittance?

The problem is that anyone even halfway experienced in those technologies would be commanding at least $50/hr in any city like Kelowna. And an expert? One who can hit the ground running and really give them a good bang for their buck? Yeah, upwards of $80-100/hr.

A quick look at the company tells us that this is no shoestring startup -- they are in a swanky suite near the top of the Dolphins Landmark building on Dolphin Avenue, which probably costs them a mint. So money is not a problem. Their website is not cheap - the developer is top shelf, and charges accordingly (I am in the industry, I know them). It is clear that cash flow is not a primary problem for them.

So why nickel and dime their foundation? Why put the squeeze on their vital infrastructure? Because it puts more into the pockets of the top people, the ones that invest and direct but probably haven’t ever done a day of grunt work in that subject. Wages like the one above, for the skills they are looking for, tells me only one thing: that they are not interested in maximizing the quality of their business, or hiring the best people, or taking care of their employees at a fair rate. They are only concerned about their ego and wealth extraction.

And that is what probably makes them a card-carrying member of the parasite class.

Rant over.
Last edited by zensiert on Nov 23rd, 2017, 9:45 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Rant: A prime example of the Sunshine Tax.

Postby Bsuds » Nov 22nd, 2017, 5:09 pm

Then I guess they won't get any applicants for the job.
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Re: Rant: A prime example of the Sunshine Tax.

Postby Verum » Nov 22nd, 2017, 5:14 pm

I've noticed similar with other employers, offering around 75% of the pay one would expect pretty much anywhere else in BC. Kelowna would be killing it in IT if we were offering pay rates within a few percent of Vancouver rates. I've seen far too many tech and engineering people leave Kelowna for the greener pastures of Vancouver.
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Re: Rant: A prime example of the Sunshine Tax.

Postby gman313 » Nov 22nd, 2017, 5:54 pm

Verum wrote:I've noticed similar with other employers, offering around 75% of the pay one would expect pretty much anywhere else in BC. Kelowna would be killing it in IT if we were offering pay rates within a few percent of Vancouver rates. I've seen far too many tech and engineering people leave Kelowna for the greener pastures of Vancouver.


people say this but by all accounts the sector is alive and thriving
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Re: Rant: A prime example of the Sunshine Tax.

Postby Verum » Nov 22nd, 2017, 5:56 pm

gman313 wrote:
Verum wrote:I've noticed similar with other employers, offering around 75% of the pay one would expect pretty much anywhere else in BC. Kelowna would be killing it in IT if we were offering pay rates within a few percent of Vancouver rates. I've seen far too many tech and engineering people leave Kelowna for the greener pastures of Vancouver.


people say this but by all accounts the sector is alive and thriving

To be sure, it's not doing too badly, I'm just saying that it could be doing considerably better
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Re: Rant: A prime example of the Sunshine Tax.

Postby Even Steven » Nov 22nd, 2017, 6:06 pm

If somebody is willing to do it for that rate, then everybody is happy. If nobody applies they'll have to up it.

No need to get all insulted.

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Re: Rant: A prime example of the Sunshine Tax.

Postby generalposter » Nov 22nd, 2017, 7:02 pm

Even Steven wrote:If somebody is willing to do it for that rate, then everybody is happy. If nobody applies they'll have to up it.

No need to get all insulted.


Wrong.

Taking a position at a rate well below deserved or expected does not say someone's happy about it. Lot's of people work for less than they are worth around here and are not happy about it. Circumstances may dictate that a person takes a position such as this for the interim and they feel burnt before they even get to their desk. Under paid employees are not good for anyone's moral.

Sometimes I wonder...
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Re: Rant: A prime example of the Sunshine Tax.

Postby Even Steven » Nov 22nd, 2017, 10:17 pm

generalposter wrote:Taking a position at a rate well below deserved or expected does not say someone's happy about it.


Hey, you ask anybody - "are you getting as much as you deserve?" 99% of people will say no, I'd like more. Who doesn't feel they should be getting more? Does it mean 99% of people are unhappy?

Once again - if you don't like the rate, go make $400,000/year if these positions are so redily available. But if it's appealing for somebody just getting into the industry or building portfolio - heck, might be a way to go. Nobody is forcing anybody do anything.
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Re: Rant: A prime example of the Sunshine Tax.

Postby zensiert » Nov 22nd, 2017, 11:02 pm

Even Steven wrote:But if it's appealing for somebody just getting into the industry or building portfolio - heck, might be a way to go.


The problem with this ad is that it is asking for highly skilled, extensive-experience employees for *bleep* pay. This is not a matter of someone “getting in the door”, as anyone with these skills would have been in the industry for at least a decade, and five years at an absolute minimum. This is a blatant attempt to devalue skilled labour in the interests of maximizing investor/owner payout.
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Re: Rant: A prime example of the Sunshine Tax.

Postby Lady tehMa » Nov 22nd, 2017, 11:05 pm

My husband is working as a Journeyman at $3 per hour less than entry level journeyman wages - and he has been with the company for quite a while.

People want to live here, employers can take advantage of that. Many do.
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Re: Rant: A prime example of the Sunshine Tax.

Postby zensiert » Nov 22nd, 2017, 11:37 pm

Lady tehMa wrote:My husband is working as a Journeyman at $3 per hour less than entry level journeyman wages - and he has been with the company for quite a while.


If he is a blue-collar worker, then there is no excuse for that except complacency. Especially with the tight employment conditions and desperate demand for workers in many to most of the blue collar industries, he really needs to job hop. Companies these days no longer give their employees any loyalty, so why should employees give it back? Loyalty needs to be earned in both directions, and if you don’t get loyalty from your employer it is time to leave.

Employers -- remember the golden rule:

Image

See that first entry? That very first one at the upper left? Yup. The biggest thing you can do to ensure quality employees and long-term retention is to pay them well. You want your employees to be your biggest fan? To jump over the sun and the moon for you and your business? Satisfy all ten points. The net gains of doing so will f**king blow your mind. Satisfying all ten points could easily be your single biggest competitive advantage in the marketplace, and have customers beating a path to your business.

And just remember: if all you are getting are crappy employees that you can’t rely on, then the problem isn’t them -- it’s you. The quality of your workforce is always a reflection of your own quality and suitability as a manager and a leader.
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Re: Rant: A prime example of the Sunshine Tax.

Postby lesliepaul » Nov 23rd, 2017, 12:46 am

zensiert wrote:
Even Steven wrote:But if it's appealing for somebody just getting into the industry or building portfolio - heck, might be a way to go.


The problem with this ad is that it is asking for highly skilled, extensive-experience employees for *bleep* pay. This is not a matter of someone “getting in the door”, as anyone with these skills would have been in the industry for at least a decade, and five years at an absolute minimum. This is a blatant attempt to devalue skilled labour in the interests of maximizing investor/owner payout.


zensiert..........you are 100% dead on. It is a way of life for way too many successful business owners in Kelowna. They all want the best employee according to their adds but if this was advertised in Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto..........heck, even Winnipeg............there would be no response. Or, maybe the response would be someone inquiring to mention a typo where it says "wage per hour"............"don't you mean every 30 minutes".
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Re: Rant: A prime example of the Sunshine Tax.

Postby adionline » Nov 23rd, 2017, 2:09 am

Not that I don't think this position should pay more but ranting that you don't like a wage someone is offering is a waste of time. The company is free to hire at any wage they want. Either 2 things will happen: Someone will apply and possible get the job or they will get no applicants. Alternatively, they may get lots of turn over and eventually pay out more to keep employees. At the end of the day an employer can ask minimum wage. If you think you're worth more then great. Get your own clients, start your own business and earn significantly more in the long run. No one is forcing you to apply and work that wage.
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Re: Rant: A prime example of the Sunshine Tax.

Postby Dizzy1 » Nov 23rd, 2017, 4:49 am

zensiert wrote:I have just come across one of the most blatantly crazy ads that I have seen in a long time:

SQL Programmer / Database Developer

Knew Realty Research Inc. is your local, Okanagan residential real estate expert. We are at the forefront of innovation when it comes to understanding and reporting the current status and upcoming trends in communities and neighborhoods across the greater region.

We are currently recruiting for a SQL Programmer / Database Developer.

The position will be responsible for creating and maintaining an enterprise data warehouse designed to be the foundation for a new business intelligence reporting tool.

Skills Required:

  • Experience in Data Modeling and Database design
  • Ability to understand and/or construct data warehouses
  • Strong background in SQL Server Integration Services (SSIS) for ETL and SQL Server Reporting Services (SSRS) for report generation
  • Comprehensive grasp of data visualization methods
  • Experience in performance tuning complex queries, procedure and indexing strategies

Job Type:
  • 30 Hours per week, three-month initial contract with possibility of permanent extension.

Job Location:
  • Kelonwa BC

Required education:
  • Post-Secondary school diploma in computer science or related field

Required experience:
  • Previous work experience considered an asset. At the very least the candidate should be able to provide examples of previous work in visualizing reports by querying SQL databases.

Remuneration:
  • $18 to $20 per hour (experience dependent) during initial contract period.

If interested please e-mail your resume or CV to *removed*


And my jaw was left on the floor in sheer astonishment. Is this the mentality of the current crop of Kelowna employers?

Let’s look at those requirements again:

  • Experience in Data Modeling and Database design
  • Ability to understand and/or construct data warehouses
  • Strong background in SQL Server Integration Services (SSIS) for ETL and SQL Server Reporting Services (SSRS) for report generation
  • Comprehensive grasp of data visualization methods
  • Experience in performance tuning complex queries, procedure and indexing strategies

For anyone not in the IT industry, and not a DBA (Database Administrator), these are advanced skills that are only mastered after many years of study and work. Plus, they are asking for someone with a full degree, with four years of study behind them. This is like asking a Certified Accountant or a junior Lawyer to do work at $18-20/hr. Don’t we all wish we could ask that? To have our finances balanced and our legal problems solved for a pittance?

The problem is that anyone even halfway experienced in those technologies would be commanding at least $50/hr in any city like Kelowna. And an expert? One who can hit the ground running and really give them a good bang for their buck? Yeah, upwards of $80-100/hr.

A quick look at the company tells us that this is no shoestring startup -- they are in a swanky suite near the top of the Dolphins building, which probably costs them a mint. So money is not a problem. Their website is not cheap - the developer is top shelf, and charges accordingly (I am in the industry, I know them). It is clear that cash flow is not a primary problem for them.

So why nickel and dime their foundation? Why put the squeeze on their vital infrastructure? Because it puts more into the pockets of the top people, the ones that invest and direct but probably haven’t ever done a day of grunt work in that subject. Wages like the one above, for the skills they are looking for, tells me only one thing: that they are not interested in maximizing the quality of their business, or hiring the best people, or taking care of their employees at a fair rate. They are only concerned about their ego and wealth extraction.

And that is what probably makes them a card-carrying member of the parasite class.

Rant over.


Ummmmm - you did read the part of that wage being only for the 3 month initial contract?

What’s the wage after the probation period is up?

You apply for the job, take on the initial contract at set wage - give it the allotted time to see if you’re the right fit for them company and the company is the right fit for you and then you negotiate a more permanent contract of employment with a new wage. No sunshine tax there.
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Re: Rant: A prime example of the Sunshine Tax.

Postby AlienSoldier » Nov 23rd, 2017, 7:11 am

gman313 wrote:
Verum wrote:I've noticed similar with other employers, offering around 75% of the pay one would expect pretty much anywhere else in BC. Kelowna would be killing it in IT if we were offering pay rates within a few percent of Vancouver rates. I've seen far too many tech and engineering people leave Kelowna for the greener pastures of Vancouver.


people say this but by all accounts the sector is alive and thriving


Is it really? I always laugh when they call Kelowna a Silicon Valley, mainly because cities the same size as Kelowna are growing start-ups and businesses much faster and stronger. Eventually we won't be able to see the others as they push on. Waterloo is a good example of someone who is pushing further ahead and is about the same size as Kelowna
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