"Their report cards are a lie"

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Re: "Their report cards are a lie"

Postby Silverstarqueen » Nov 28th, 2017, 7:09 am

Fancy wrote:The parents gave the school the chance until they saw the results (or lack thereof).

Silverstarqueen wrote:"“We asked her what sound does the letter B make, and she kind of looked at us like she had no clue what we were talking about,” Hales said. “That day was when we decided to pull her.”
A parent that would pull a child out of school on this basis has no idea of how to assess a child's learning progress.
Letters don't make sounds. I read all day, the room is silent.

I highly doubt the parents pulled the child on that one example - I would think that was the last straw. How would you know a child can read if they never sound out the words? Teachers and families left the school before (an exodus) - there was a problem. Obviously there's another one.
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=71239


There are many ways to assess a child's reading progress, besides having them sound out the letters. In fact that is one of the worst ways to assess reading. Most people read without sounding out the lettters, children can too.
From the sounds of the report (which of course we are only getting third hand) the school assessed the child according to their standard, and was determined to be progressing adequately according to their program. If that program commenced formal reading skills in grade (whatever), then that was their expectation. There is nothing wrong that I can see with introducing formal reading at whatever age , and some advantages to delaying that introduction for many children.
Many children don't learn to read in school at any rate, they learn from a homelife rich in language, reading, and writing, or even electronic communications nowadays. How many parents see their role as language teachers being vital to their child's progress in reading? How many have an eroneous concept that "letters make sounds", and that must somehow have something to do with reading?

People can certainly differ in their opinion as to what is the ideal age to begin formal reading education(even educators differ), in which case they should be putting their children in a different school, which teaches reading according to their liking. Putting children in a non-standard program on a "wait and see" basis and then pulling them out, makes very little sense. The child will then be taken from one plan, and thrown onto another, and have more difficulty with the second program, because horses were switched in midstream. An educational plan builds, one year on the other, so consistency is very important for final results. By pulling the children out, no one had a chance to even see final results.

Whatever other reasons there were for parents leaving the school in large numbers, we do not know what they were, since they weren't mentioned in the article. The article definitely implied that reading/writing progress was the main concern, otherwise why not mention what their concerns were?
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Re: "Their report cards are a lie"

Postby Fancy » Nov 28th, 2017, 7:13 am

Silverstarqueen wrote:There are many ways to assess a child's reading progress, besides having them sound out the letters.

That's not what I said. To put it simply, how do you know a child can read if they don't read out loud?
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Re: "Their report cards are a lie"

Postby Fancy » Nov 28th, 2017, 7:14 am

Silverstarqueen wrote:From the sounds of the report (which of course we are only getting third hand) the school assessed the child according to their standard, and was determined to be progressing adequately according to their program.

When the school states a child can spell when they can't, that's hardly progressing adequately according to their program. As far as the other concerns were, read the link I posted.
Silverstarqueen wrote:People can certainly differ in their opinion as to what is the ideal age to begin formal reading education(even educators differ), ......

Interesting chart here (and expectations):
http://www.torontowaldorfschool.com/why ... /index.php
I would think, since the schools have spelling bees, it would be important to know what the letters sound like.
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Re: "Their report cards are a lie"

Postby Silverstarqueen » Nov 28th, 2017, 12:53 pm

Silverstarqueen wrote:There are many ways to assess a child's reading progress, besides having them sound out the letters.

Fancy wrote:That's not what I said. To put it simply, how do you know a child can read if they don't read out loud?


There are many ways, as I said. One would be to ask the child what he recalls from what he read. or ask him specific questions about the passage. or ask them to point out which picture shows what the passage was about. The child could draw a picture himself about it, and tell you what is in the picture.
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Re: "Their report cards are a lie"

Postby Silverstarqueen » Nov 28th, 2017, 1:19 pm

The program is rich in language, literature, and poetry and lyrics. So before learning the "sound" of a single letter, this is an excellent basis for learning to read. In the regular school system children often start by laboring over incredibly stilted and unnatural language readers. Some teachers in the regular school system have moved beyond this nowadays and include rich literature in their reading program, but many still do not. At any rate, the Waldorf language and literature curriculum looks more than adequate to me, at least from the overview. You will also find that when children with a Waldorf background get to the point of telling and writing their own stories or songs, they will be much richer and fluent in their language than most children from a typical school.
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Re: "Their report cards are a lie"

Postby Fancy » Nov 28th, 2017, 5:54 pm

Silverstarqueen wrote: One would be to ask the child what he recalls from what he read.

Guess you missed the part of memorizing stories.
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Re: "Their report cards are a lie"

Postby gozags » Dec 2nd, 2017, 8:41 pm

GOOD EDUCATION BEGINS AT HOME, NOT SCHOOL !!!
The biggest problem in our education systems (Public, Waldorf, Private etc) is that children who enter have been given their roots outside the classroom.....for some they are good roots, but for many they are not so good. Too many children start school without the social and verbal skills they need to be able to take part in lessons and to be able to behave well. Children are ONLY in school for 5.5 hrs out of the day the other 18.5 they are at home with parents or some other caregiver. PARENTS ARE THE CHILDREN'S 1ST AND MOST IMPORTANT TEACHERS.......and this should not stop once they start school. Maintaining a good, solid relationship with your child's teacher is the MOST IMPORTANT thing you can do for your child once they start school, checking in daily (in person, emails, text etc) to see how your child is doing. Parents should be working just as hard as the teachers at school to help with their child's success ...........IT TAKES A VILLAGE TO RAISE A CHILD
and just as important IT ALSO TAKES GOOD SOLID ROOTS FROM HOME !

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Re: "Their report cards are a lie"

Postby TylerM4 » Dec 3rd, 2017, 8:55 am

gozags wrote:GOOD EDUCATION BEGINS AT HOME, NOT SCHOOL !!!
The biggest problem in our education systems (Public, Waldorf, Private etc) is that children who enter have been given their roots outside the classroom.....for some they are good roots, but for many they are not so good. Too many children start school without the social and verbal skills they need to be able to take part in lessons and to be able to behave well. Children are ONLY in school for 5.5 hrs out of the day the other 18.5 they are at home with parents or some other caregiver. PARENTS ARE THE CHILDREN'S 1ST AND MOST IMPORTANT TEACHERS.......and this should not stop once they start school. Maintaining a good, solid relationship with your child's teacher is the MOST IMPORTANT thing you can do for your child once they start school, checking in daily (in person, emails, text etc) to see how your child is doing. Parents should be working just as hard as the teachers at school to help with their child's success ...........IT TAKES A VILLAGE TO RAISE A CHILD
and just as important IT ALSO TAKES GOOD SOLID ROOTS FROM HOME !


How's the view from the soapbox? Nobody is going to disagree with you here. Parents play a huge role in their child's education.

However, that's not what the story or this thread is about. Once again, the complaint is in how they've assessed these children. The school has led these parents to believe the child's progress was far better than it actually was. It doesn't matter if this school puts less emphasis on reading/writing in the early years. If the report card says the kid can read then the kid better damn well be able to read.

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Re: "Their report cards are a lie"

Postby Silverstarqueen » Dec 3rd, 2017, 8:05 pm

I wonder why these kids aren't "reading"? My kids were generally reading material above that being presented in the regular school curriculum, so what would cause the children in these Waldorf schools to not be reading? Most kids pick it up pretty naturally without specific instruction, mainly because reading is being supported in the home. For most kids you would have to blindfold them or prevent them from seeing any printed material, since they will read the cereal box, TV, advertisements for toys, makes and models of cars, favorite story books, instructions on how to assemble toys. I don't really know how you prevent your kids from learning to read.

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Re: "Their report cards are a lie"

Postby Fancy » Dec 8th, 2017, 5:20 am

“The ministry has determined Kelowna Waldorf School is not meeting legislated requirements around curricular compliance and delivery of the B.C. curriculum,” said Sean Leslie, communications manager with the Ministry of Education

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#213523

Appears the Ministry agrees with the parents.
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Re: "Their report cards are a lie"

Postby LANDM » Dec 8th, 2017, 6:48 am

Silverstarqueen wrote:I wonder why these kids aren't "reading"? My kids were generally reading material above that being presented in the regular school curriculum, so what would cause the children in these Waldorf schools to not be reading? Most kids pick it up pretty naturally without specific instruction, mainly because reading is being supported in the home. For most kids you would have to blindfold them or prevent them from seeing any printed material, since they will read the cereal box, TV, advertisements for toys, makes and models of cars, favorite story books, instructions on how to assemble toys. I don't really know how you prevent your kids from learning to read.


Apparently the Waldorf school has got that part nailed pretty well. It’s a dirty job but someone has to prevent kids from learning how to read and then lie to the parents about it.

I would be *bleep* if I was the parent also. But, I wouldn’t have put my kids in that school and I would have monitored their progress throughout so it wouldn’t have happened.....but the story is still a valid one and hopefully wakes people up to the reality of what their kids are getting there.
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Ministry pulls Waldorf funds

Postby Jflem1983 » Dec 8th, 2017, 2:05 pm

Laughing out loud at Waldorf.
Should have happened years ago.

Thank you to the ministry for finally looking into this odd flock.

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/2 ... dorf-funds
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Re: Ministry pulls Waldorf funds

Postby Fancy » Dec 8th, 2017, 2:10 pm

*Thanks! I've merged the topics. :)
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